MS 441 Carb Removal

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BenSouthgate

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Hi all,

Perhaps I'm missing something simple, but I cannot seem to figure out how to remove the carb from the cylinder head on my MS441. I have both separated from the rest of the saw as a unit, but I cannot separate the two. I notice that there are four bolts perhaps holding the whole carb assembly to the head, but those are impossible to get to. The whole carb assembly is kinda loose and bouncy as tho it is attached via rubber, but it will not come free and I don't want to force it. Nor do I want to disassemble the carb.

Any help/instruction would be most appreciated.

Thanks
 
You've got to remove the carburetor, then remove the upper and lower inner ring and outer flange reinforcements from the intake boots, then pull the pull that housing off the boot flanges. Also remove the impulse hose and fuel hoses from their slots in the housing when pulling it off the boots. (Empty the fuel tank 1st) then crack the fuel cap open just prior to pulling the carb free unless you want squirted with fuel.
M-tronic wiring needs to be pulled from its routing groove to make it easier to separate and manage.
You have one screw behind the bulkhead to remove, then an air plenum from the flywheel to remove. The throttle cable can be accessed by pulling the throttle wide open with the trigger first so you can grab it with needle nose pliers.
During all this wrestling, make sure you don't accidently unplug the impulse line off the nipple under the bulkhead at the base of the cylinder. You should be able to access those four screws after removing those things. You don't need to completely remove the white bulkhead. This will save you from having to get the fuel and impulse hoses snaked back through, which is not easy. The impulse keeps trying to pull free.
Be carefull not to overtighten those four boot screws when going back together. They are only 4mm in aluminum. Put blue loctite on them if you are worried about them coming loose. Lol
I am gold certified, and the first time I tore into one of those it was daunting. Quite a departure from most saws, but similar to an MS362.
Take notes and pictures.
Did you score a piston, and are replacing it?
 
Hi all,

Perhaps I'm missing something simple, but I cannot seem to figure out how to remove the carb from the cylinder head on my MS441. I have both separated from the rest of the saw as a unit, but I cannot separate the two. I notice that there are four bolts perhaps holding the whole carb assembly to the head, but those are impossible to get to. The whole carb assembly is kinda loose and bouncy as tho it is attached via rubber, but it will not come free and I don't want to force it. Nor do I want to disassemble the carb.

Any help/instruction would be most appreciated.

Thanks
Sent you a link to IPL and shop manual. Check your Inbox.
 
Thanks guys! It's amazing how difficult they make it to separate the carb and the head. I mean, come on. I pulled the head to re-thread a stripped spark plug hole without getting chips in the cylinder. I don't actually need to remove the carb, so I may not just now so that I don't run the risk of messing something up for no reason. The info is still greatly appreciated, however!
 
Thanks guys! It's amazing how difficult they make it to separate the carb and the head. I mean, come on. I pulled the head to re-thread a stripped spark plug hole without getting chips in the cylinder. I don't actually need to remove the carb, so I may not just now so that I don't run the risk of messing something up for no reason. The info is still greatly appreciated, however!
*
I use a system called time-sert. None better IMO. However the kit is a bit pricey at $160.00 on ebay. I do about 20 or 30 a year at $25 a pop, so it's long been paid for. I have never had one fail or come back out with the spark plug like heli-coils or similar repair inserts do from auto parts stores.
I have installed them before, many times, with success with the cylinder still on the saw, by hanging the saw upside down during the whole tapping process.
If you position the piston to where the exhaust port is barely open at the top the transfers shouldn't be open.
I use heavy grease on the tap to help trap them and put some paper towel inside on top of the piston to help drag the shavings out. Once I'm done, and the paper towel is out, hold the flywheel so the piston won't move down and blow compressed air in through the exhaust port, then in the spark plug hole until it's as clean as you can get it.
 
I use Time Serts on power equipment and Ford modular engines and yes, they are probably the best out there.

The solid machined inserts from helicoil have worked on saws before though so they probably will still will now. Though, they have a bad reputation being used on Ford Modulars.

Stay away from the actual coil helicoils though.

Alex's instructions above are what I do. I have had equal success with doing them right side up and upside down though. 100%
 
Thanks for the info. I certainly wouldn't mind getting a time-sert, but since I'm only doing it once (hopefully) I can't really rationalize the price. I got the $27 Helicoil set and it should work fine. Sounds like I didn't necessarily have to pull the head off, but I was interested in tearing it apart anyway. I actually have two 441s (one a bit older than the other) and my other one has already had a Helicoil insert job done before I got it. Seems to work fine, but the insert is coming out with the plug at the moment since they didn't use any red rtv to keep it in there. We shall see how it goes.

I'm also thinking of adding an extra muffler exit port and smoothing out the exhaust port on the head while everything is apart. Any ideas as to where to get the little covers for new exit ports? Or do guys normally just make their own? Also, from what hat I've read, it seems that there isn't much to do inside the muffler so it wouldn't be worth trying to get in there to clean it out. Is that true?
 
her) and my other one has already had a Helicoil insert job done before I got it. Seems to work fine, but the insert is coming out with the plug at the moment since they didn't use any red rtv to keep it in there. We shall see how it goes.
*
Red RTV is not really what you want to use.
Red Loctite #266 is the best sealer and thread locker recommended for spark plug repair insert applications. Small packets are cheap on ebay, but make sure the expiration date is not expired.

The spark plug has a crush type seal washer on it. When the plug gets removed with the insert attached it will create a leak without sealer.
Plus when the plug eventually needs changed, pliers are going to need be used to grab the insert, making some boogered threads, and the boogered threads are going to eat at the aluminum threads each time it gets removed and reinstalled.

I would separate the insert from the plug using pliers, but not at the starting threads. If you theoretically only do this once, it's not going to matter as far as the aluminum cylinder threads go.
Clean both the insert and the cylinder threads with carb cleaner or lacquer thinner to dry it out.
Some clean paper towel inside on top of the piston should keep the cleaner off the rings and cylinder wall, just don't forget to remove it afterwards.
Then apply a little bit of 2-stroke oil to the spark plug threads and it's seal washer, and some 266 loctite to the outer insert threads and tighten it up good in the cylinder. Make sure you don't end up with loctite inside the cylinder when you are done. IOW, don't glob it on there.
Then next time hopefully only the plug will come out when you change the plug.
 
You've got to remove the carburetor, then remove the upper and lower inner ring and outer flange reinforcements from the intake boots, then pull the pull that housing off the boot flanges. Also remove the impulse hose and fuel hoses from their slots in the housing when pulling it off the boots. (Empty the fuel tank 1st) then crack the fuel cap open just prior to pulling the carb free unless you want squirted with fuel.
M-tronic wiring needs to be pulled from its routing groove to make it easier to separate and manage.
You have one screw behind the bulkhead to remove, then an air plenum from the flywheel to remove. The throttle cable can be accessed by pulling the throttle wide open with the trigger first so you can grab it with needle nose pliers.
During all this wrestling, make sure you don't accidently unplug the impulse line off the nipple under the bulkhead at the base of the cylinder. You should be able to access those four screws after removing those things. You don't need to completely remove the white bulkhead. This will save you from having to get the fuel and impulse hoses snaked back through, which is not easy. The impulse keeps trying to pull free.
Be carefull not to overtighten those four boot screws when going back together. They are only 4mm in aluminum. Put blue loctite on them if you are worried about them coming loose. Lol
I am gold certified, and the first time I tore into one of those it was daunting. Quite a departure from most saws, but similar to an MS362.
Take notes and pictures.
Did you score a piston, and are replacing it?
Hey Alex, I let someone use my 441, they dulled the chain and proceeded to burn the cylinder up. 0 compression. You say take the carburetor off, but I don’t see how it comes off. Do you have any diagrams or pics? I’ve been working on mechanical things my entire life, but this one has me stumped. I have learned to stop before I make it worse though! Thanks in advance! John.
 
Hey Alex, I let someone use my 441, they dulled the chain and proceeded to burn the cylinder up. 0 compression. You say take the carburetor off, but I don’t see how it comes off. Do you have any diagrams or pics? I’ve been working on mechanical things my entire life, but this one has me stumped. I have learned to stop before I make it worse though! Thanks in advance! John.
Have you tried to push both intake boots through the carb . Should come free once separated from the boots. Bolts used keep boot to cyl
 
You got a pic of where you are stuck ?
Did you take intake and carb off together? The only connections to carb are fuel line, impulse, (choke linkage) throttle linkage, intake manifold and mounting screws.
Hey Angelo! Carb is off. The intake is stuck in the boots I guess
 
This is where I am now. Can’t get the intake loose.
 

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This is where I am now. Can’t get the intake loose.
Ok...what I can see so far is the metal retainer ring inside the manifold has to come out. then push both intakes in through and behind the carb mounting box. that should free up the cyl. Are we just topping the saw off or are we splitting the case ? its hard to see in the pic for me. I would really give it a good cleaning as best as possible while the cyl is still on so no debris gets into case when top comes off.
 
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