Current Consensus on Aftermarket Jugs

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That’s completely dependent on the jug I have in my hand. Usually AB, but best to measure the specific jug and piston.

Using an AM jug is a crap shoot. I almost never buy one, though they seem to be around the shop. The biggest issues I see with the AM pistons aren’t the bore sizing though. It’s balance, slop at the wrist pin and poor ring quality.

1) Balance, what do AM slugs weigh compared to OEM?

2) Wrist pin slop? At circlips, at bearing, and/or in piston?

3) Rings...enough said there

4) You forgot one, circlips themselves.........


So back to original question. What sort of P/C tolerances? And are pistons tapered, top to bottom , like OEM/Meteor?

If you need to buy a set of Cabers, and OEM circlips, then do fitment..........what do you save?
 
Modified and ported...View attachment 776244 ....

Harley, that is one SICK SOB. Damm, turkey I ate yesterday almost came up, and I lost sight for a while.......

I'll take OEM anyday, on the "proper" chassis. Putting teats on a bull don't work for me.

The Italians made some nice OEMs, on the proper chassis....

SL jugs.png
 
Since I have to stand behind my work here we have NEVER once for any reason used an aftermarket P/C. I'll even hunt down a smashed older saw with a good P/C in it or a good one from a parts saw if the saw I'm working on ends up with the factory parts NLA. We're running into that deal more and more with older saws, nothing available. Just had to scrap a really nice Partner cut off saw as nothing was available for it OEM or aftermarket.......Cliff
i have to stand behind my work too, and i would rather fit oem (and L and S engineers are only a 10 minute drive away)
the problem is that most of the gear that work on is only worth about $200 , and customers wont sink $400 into an old tool
they just another 12 months of life out of it
 
I had a toasted MS170 dropped in my lap. I ordered a Hutzl MS180 engine(complete) and H/L adj Carb. After running for several hours the compression was still low, so I notified the seller and they sent a replacement. Needless to say, it's a long slow boat from Cheen-wha...
I kept running it and finally it settled in so now I've got a spare.
The 170 to 180 swap is similar to the 290-310-390 swaps. For the added displacement I wouldn't argue performance as long as the quality is OK.
It will cut wood.
 
1) Balance, what do AM slugs weigh compared to OEM?

2) Wrist pin slop? At circlips, at bearing, and/or in piston?

3) Rings...enough said there

4) You forgot one, circlips themselves.........


So back to original question. What sort of P/C tolerances? And are pistons tapered, top to bottom , like OEM/Meteor?

If you need to buy a set of Cabers, and OEM circlips, then do fitment..........what do you save?

1). It’s manufacturer and model dependent. Many Meteors are lighter some by over 10 grams. Wrist pin weight is also worth considering. I’m also usually looking for wider skirts. Meteor often has that as well. Other AM stuff is all over the place.

2). Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Space for the con rod can vary quite a lot as well, allowing bearings to walk sideways. Also, some suspect locate pins. Only seen one actually come out, but others at weird angles or wiggling a bit

3. Yep. Brittle, wear out quickly, metal filings still attached etc.

4. Excellent point. Sometimes they’re fine. Meteor hasn’t failed me yet. Golf or Huztl/Farmertec, forget it. Garbage.

It’s easy to make a long list of issues with AM parts. But many work just fine. And there are plenty of OEM flaws too.

You just have to keep your eyes open. I’ve seen good pistons from Hyway, Cross, and even Farmertec. Tapered properly with tolerance usually right at .0030”, but I’ve seen stuff from those brands where the piston will not physically fit (or come outo_O).
But I certainly don’t measure every piston to 0.0001”! I measure what looks suspect, sometimes pop-up candidates or the occasional random check. Thus far Meteor pistons have worked in OEM jugs every time. AM jugs, who knows? That’s why I say buy the cheapest, because you could always get burned. In general I trust AM jugs more than AM pistons but I don’t use AM jugs on anything but experimental saws (and not often, even then).

I’m definitely not promoting AM jugs. I’ve been disappointed enough. But if you use one, hedge your bets. A $130 AM kit is a terrible idea. $30, well, that’s cheaper than a bad date.
 
This is one of those subjects made difficult because of the variances in the experiences of those who would post...and there in lies the answer. Not consistent. Where OEM IS consistent. (ly better)
2013 was when I stuck together the first Aftermarket sourced saw I ever did. Interestingly enough that first "Huztl" 372 saw still lives. It had just about everything break externally from pull starts fragging to the muffler rattling off, but the core saw which was a 52mm Farmertec cylinder on OEM cases and crank still runs. Had an OEM intake and carb as well. It ate all the AM ignitions and settled on a OEM ignition. Then the "Cyclops" which was the first X-Torq to OE saw I ever built. It to has a Farmertec 52mm cylinder. I ran it for a season or two, then it lingered in the truck with occasional use. Finally I gave it to my Son in law. IT still runs. So to this point the "sample" of two Farmertec 52mm 372 OE top ends on my saws have lasted. Then rolled into the MS660 clone saw phase. And yet again had the Farmertec 54mm's run and last with out any failure on those saws build with those top ends to this point in time. The first 56mms same...no structural issues. Even with their freeport issues. Then Farmertec went through some parts source changes and somewhere around 2017 the 56mm (NOT 54mm, the 54's were still good) top ends were simply junk. The first set of MS660 Farmertecs I built STILL are running. ALL of them. The first 56mm with that earlier top end is still running as well. The one I build with the "junk" 56mm's ( bling Saw) just was ugly, I ended up pulling that jug and putting one from the earlier batch and IT still runs. :) I've built many of those with the 54's from farmertec and some went into true logging use and they ALL still run. had to detail them with a smattering of OEM parts..all documented on YouTube, the the cylinders from Farmertec lasted, even if they were ugly as compared to other AM's and OEM. So in an attempt to add both longevity and a better appearance I tried some on line "Fad's" starting with those Cross Performance 54mm's with a popup. Two for two failed quickly ...but not the plating or casting of the cylinders. Took out the cranks and for a bit I was blaming Farmertec cranks...it wasn't the cranks! It was bore alignment issues with the cylinders putting a side load on the connecting rod, taking out the cranks. Fast. A third one from an Amish fellow came thru the shop they had built...same top end, same issue. And that was the beginning of the "carnage" phase. I built those 660's back to Farmertec 54mm's, one with a HyWay 54mm popup piston (not cylinder, just piston) and four of them went into full time logging....and they ALL still run. The rest I auctioned off down at Whitney point..needed room. Auctions are clean separations. Moved back into 372's....

I've built tens maybe twenties XT to OE conversions now from blown up X-torqs. The build I did for customers was converting them to OE's with 51.4mm OEM top ends. A lot of reasons why. SO to try and come up with "options" I started again to look at AM options....Understand while I have had each of the three clone 372 Farmertec's variants ( g372, g372xp, g372xt) come thru the shop, figured on the ones I was to build I would go up scale a bit with the cylinders. TO this point in time NONE of the Farmertec cylinders have failed on 372's I've had. Not a one. They may not be pretty, but they run. I tried going to Hyway's. The first "HyWay" hot rod was build on a 52mm decked to get .018 squish. It siezed. Plating just under the exhaust peeled and stuck the cylinder. Since it was just a little piece, AND it was below the exhaust, not ever in contact with the rings, I cleaned it up with a hone and stuck it back together. THAT saw still runs. Build another one with a used OEM cylinder with a Farmertec Piston...THAT saw runs daily here. ( JPS Saw n the channel) Had a Madsen modified cylinder I stuffed a Farmertec Piston in. I then figured I would really go upscale with a HyWay 52mm Popup top end. That saw lasted 7 or 8 months as a full time daily use loggers saw...it blew up. Plating over the exhaust port peeled off. And to add insult to injury the Aftermarket cases it was built on had the PTO side bearing pocket beat open...which is why I tore that saw down because it was STILL running peeled plating and all...but found the two issues on tear down, turned the bones of that one into the 48mm build with a popup.

Mean while I've started down a different path for "simple builds"...using those Lil Red Barn Popups inside Used OEM cylinders. Why? Because I know the cylinder quality and plating quality is better than Anything I can get Aftermarket. And you can get away with a "lessor" piston if the RPM's are kept stock, assuming piston diameter & ring end gaps are within reason. The increase in compression is the "Hop" to those who care and we will see if they last....time will tell. But one thing I am absolutely sure of. OEM cylinders are the best starting point. And the LESS grinding on the area's the rings will pass over the better relative to plating life. You break that as manufactured bond, and the frag clock starts to tick ... faster. The Lil Red Barn popup pistons are going in where OEM Pistons worn to the point there was aluminum transfer happened resided...and my bet is even after the trauma they last longer than some of the "Fadish" Aftermarket cylinders & pistons made with materials that expand at a different rate than the OEM cylinders were designed for. And for a cheap bang per buck build....$40 dollars delivered gives more performance than the stock setup. I will put them in the hands of a few loggers around here to see if they last. Having said that , even though I've had no failures on the Farmertec's I still lean towards the "salvage" OEM cylinders at this point, They just look right I guess. Just did a three part video series starting with the "disappointment" of finding my fun HyWay Hot Rod was toast. To building it back with another set of AM cases and a used 48mm OEM 365 cylinder with a LiL Red barn Popup. Good running saw. Easily a match of a stock 372 and a LOT lighter than any X-Torq. :) Happy again......

Bottom line? OEM and Farmertec Cylinders have done me well. Done with the "pretty" ones where the plating flakes off. Also beginning to understand that a lot of over analysis happens with these simple little two strokes.....lots of money spent on stuff that is more about bling & bragging rights and as one entrepreneur once opined, there is a sucker born every day! But its fun, and if those things help more smiles happen, who cares. ( All the years I spent money on race bikes? And prolly loosing 20lbs would have make more difference? Not one to judge! )
 

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