Best Wood Heating Option for 3500 sqft New Construction

[MountainHigh]

I'm not sure I follow. First, a modern high efficiency EPA stove will struggle to operate correctly whilst attempting to heat soak a 10k lb masonry chimney. They require an insulated 6" (?) class A chimney specifically so they keep the heat within the chimney. Second, I'm not sure why it makes sense to have 1) a system to do inground heat with the boiler and 2) a second natural gravity heat system. If a person is spending the money for the floor heat why wouldn't he just have a large storage unit fed by a wood boiler and a backup boiler?
Either way, neither of those systems has anything to do with building a massive fireplace center mass and using the mass of the chimney to store heat.
Not trying to get into a pissing match, I just don't understand what you are saying.

Glad to have a conversation. Let me explain further from my own experience.

I have a 2500 sq. ft. home - 2x6 kiln dried fir construction, some vaulted ceilings and double pane windows - R20 walls, R40 ceilings, with tall 27' high, 5'x 2' CENTRAL Brick Chimney with tile liners(6"x10" flue) that runs my PE Summit Free standing wood stove very well. I heat 2 stories without the need to run any backup even on the coldest days, if I can be around to tend the fire. Yes it takes longer to get up to temp than a straight steel pipe, but once it does, it holds heat for several hours on 2 floors even after the stove goes out. Will any EPA wood stove work on such a chimney? No, I have tried various other brands of stoves with less success. You need a large stove that throws a lot of raidant heat and one that puts enough heat up the chimney to get the large thermal mass warm enough to draft well. Hence, a Cat stove, which does not put up a lot of heat up the chimney, would need something else.

I know that current regulations state one has to have a steel liner on new wood stove installation, but if I was building today, I would look at ways of placing a single wall steel liner inside a large thermal mass with a concrete pour around the steel, to provide heat transfer into the thermal mass itself. IF that turns out to also not be allowed (wonders never cease) by a building inspector, then I would still build my home around a straight up central "approved" chimney, so as to keep the heat in the centre of the home and make the heat source also provide some utility as a gathering place and informal food stove top as well. A house with a central chimney passive heat storage system, enables such consistent heat conservation and pleasing warm radiation over time with wood alone, that I can easily leave windows cracked open on both floors to obtain natural movement of fresh air in the dead of winter.

In my case, I plumbed in all the required hookups to take hot water from a robust wood stove water jacket and into my hydronic heat backup boiler expansion tank system with its own distribution pump that will run off natural convection and battery, but never actually joined the two systems, as insurance would no longer cover my home (so I was told). Hence, my isolated compact Hydronic Heating system with low profile radiators in all the rooms and heating in the slab itself, serves as backup heat when I am away.

Lots of variables in setting up a central heating system, but my main beef is the fact that new homes are mandated in such a way to keep homeowners on the treadmill of paying to be on the grid.

 

[OnTheRoad]

It never ceases to amaze me how creative people are when heating with wood. So your stove is large enough and sends enough heat up the flue to heat the whole mass?

I'm probably just jealous because my wood furnace isn't doing what I want it to. I'm working on it....

 

[blakey]

With an inside furnace,you get heat quicker since you don't have to heat the water first and you don't have to go outside in the rain or snow to fire it.It's whichever you want.

Actually if the owb is run properly it is always up to temp providing instant heat. The only time you wait for heat is the first fire of the season.

 

[MountainHigh]

It never ceases to amaze me how creative people are when heating with wood. So your stove is large enough and sends enough heat up the flue to heat the whole mass?

I'm probably just jealous because my wood furnace isn't doing what I want it to. I'm working on it....

Measured my chimney and more accurately, it is 4'.6"' x 2'.4" ft housing 2 tile liners - one for the gas and the other for the wood stove (The gas brick side is always a little cool to touch, but pretty close to ambient room temp). After running wood stove for about 2 hours the wood stove starts to heat an area of brick about 30% of the 'entire' brick chimney area. Pleasantly warm to touch even on the second floor - after the stove has been burning 24/7 on high for a few days, the heated mass grows to about 50% to 60% of the chimney, with the area adjacent to the inner wood flue itself being very warm to hot (never too hot), and the outer edges of the heated area a pleasant warm. Visitors will often lean against the chimney to warm up after coming indoors. Even 25 years after building this home, we still thank our lucky stars for taking the advice of a smart fellow from the Maritmes ,to make our thermal mass chimney in the center of the home.

I used to have a *small fire breathing dragon (non-epa wood stove) and that worked well putting heat up the chimney for many years but didn't radiate as much heat as I wanted in my medium sized home (used to be considered a large home - lol). When I got the PE Summit initially I had to get used to slower door opening and being cautious with back puffing when the chimney was not up to temp. I tried another stove that struggled very badly on my chimney -bought it because it had a side damper bypass which I had hoped would overcome the back puffing on door open wood loading. I soon realized that the PE was far more capable than I originally thought and have since got used to waiting until the chimney is warmed up before reloading. Still have the PESummit and yes, it does put out enough heat for this chimney. Almost every year my wife tells me how happy she is we have this stove and setup. Happy wife - happy life ;-)

The one caveat in my system is the size of the flue itself - for those with flue sizes over my 6"x10" flue, you may not have the same success I have had - whatever size your stove requires, it is important to get as close to that as possible if you were to build an old school tile flue, to have decent draft. I got lucky as I blindly relied on my European chimney builders experience 25 years ago, to choose a flue size, that, it turns out, actually works with my modern stove.

 

[AmateurSawer]

Actually if the owb is run properly it is always up to temp providing instant heat. The only time you wait for heat is the first fire of the season.

That's true.I was referring to the early fall when you get surprised by a sudden downturn in temp or late spring when the same happens.Once the fire is going and kept up there is no difference.

 

[homemade]

Id look at a boiler set up. It’s more efficient way to get the heat where you want it with out over heating one section trying to warm up a distant room. I grew up with an add on furnace and it was 80 in the living room closet to the furnace and the far bedroom was 60. But I think there was more better ways in that house to move the air compared to what we were doing.

Now your wood gathering technique I think, is more important to how you want to burn. If you have the equipment, then an owb keeps the mess and smoke outside. If your a saw/pickup/splitting maul kind of firewooder, then an indoor wood boiler would be better.

2019 I’m starting my new house (2000total sqft ranch style) and I’m going with forced air fir the AC and an owb because I already have 3 friends I cut with that run owb. So gathering wood will be the easiest staying consistent with everyone else.

 

[Deleted member 117362]

Id look at a boiler set up. It’s more efficient way to get the heat where you want it with out over heating one section trying to warm up a distant room. I grew up with an add on furnace and it was 80 in the living room closet to the furnace and the far bedroom was 60. But I think there was more better ways in that house to move the air compared to what we were doing.

Now your wood gathering technique I think, is more important to how you want to burn. If you have the equipment, then an owb keeps the mess and smoke outside. If your a saw/pickup/splitting maul kind of firewooder, then an indoor wood boiler would be better.

2019 I’m starting my new house (2000total sqft ranch style) and I’m going with forced air fir the AC and an owb because I already have 3 friends I cut with that run owb. So gathering wood will be the easiest staying consistent with everyone else.

Yes sir. You get it. Had indoor unit when I started and went to owb about 16 years ago. Should have done it sooner. So many disagree, must not have had one. Good Luck with your new build.

 

[bowtechmadman]

Grew up with indoor forced air woodstove, hauling wood to the basement all winter. Spent first 8 yrs of marriage not burning wood (married a city woman who hadn't ever burned wood except campfire) was cold all winter long for those 8 yrs b/c we kept the home at 63 degrees b/c hated how much it cost to fill the oil tank (indoor oil burner).
Finally much like Duce (17 yrs ago), convinced her on an OWB and that lovely woman who didn't want to burn wood starts asking what's wrong now if the temps drop below 73 in the house.
I would go back to 63 degrees if my only other option was putting a woodstove indoors. I really disliked the mess/smoke etc of burning inside.
New construction I would go with OWB and hot water system with in floor water circulation, no question about it, also then have the capability of heating your DHW.

 

[bbxlr8]

What you are planning sound exactly like what my neighbor built in similar size house 2 years ago. He went with a tri-fuel (not sure of the exact term) stove in a central system located next to walk out door in the basement. He loves it and uses wood FT with propane as back up. They are out there.

 

[milkie62]

Having heated with a wood stove and outdoor wood boiler for the past 30 yrs if I had to do wood all over again I would have an outdoor wood boiler with sufficient size wood shed next to it with an over hang to stay dry on the rainy days. I also would have a decorative but efficient cultured stone or brick wall centrally located in the house for a wood stove on the first floor for asthetics and another wood stove or large heat exchanger from the outdoor wood boiler in the basement to warm the floors. I know radiant floors are probably the way to go but I have never been in a house with them. And hot water heat beats hot air anyday of the week.

 

[babybart]

Outdoor wood boiler with radiant in floor heat, each room zoned.

 

[Marley5]

Outdoor wood boiler with radiant in floor heat, each room zoned.

Hah, it's what I got and absolutely love.

 

[homemade]

Hah, it's what I got and absolutely love.

Do you find you need each room zoned? A friend of mine did that and found that most rooms are with a degree or two of each other.

I can see if you wanted to do in floor in the bathroom or kitchen but having every room separate is a waist of money in my opinion.

 

[Marley5]

It is indeed a waste of money as the whole bottom floor is a heating pad so all rooms on 1st floor are same temp.

2nd floor is a little different with varying temperatures so naturally the coolest room is furthest from circulation pumps.

 

[Marshy]

Hi all, new to this site. Looking for some advice. I am building a new home this year, 3500 sqft with walk out basement and 2 stories above ground. I am looking into the best wood heating options, I will have a heat pump for backup heat but plan to use the wood heat as the main heat source. I am currently leaning towards a forced air wood furnace unit in the basement but have realized the EPA regulations have complicated the search. What has been your experience with the best type of unit to heat a home in this size range and what is the best product still available to purchase with the EPA regulations?

Sorry in advance because I haven't read any of the replies.
Ok, my opinion is hydronic heat is the best. More specifically radiant floor heating is the best. When we consider all the factors to thermal comfort, the largest contributor is surface temperature of the surfaces in our surrounding area (radiant temperature). So if I was to build 3500 sq ft I would build it with in floor heating and a high efficiency indoor boiler like a Froling (which I have currently) and the appropriate thermal storage. Your climate and efficiency of your home will dictate how much thermal storage you need and what size boiler. The usable range in your thermal storage is maximized by using in floor heating and it might be possible for you to bank heat from your heat pump into your storage tank during transition seasons.

 

[Marshy]

Here are some reasons I chose the Froling and an specifically an indoor boiler with storage.
1. I didnt want to go outside to load it.
2. Even heat distribution (ranch house)
2. Systwm efficiency was high on the priority list.
3. Easy to use (for wife) was a must.
4. Even though I wanted thermal losses to be within the heating envelope I wanted to keep the dust, bugs and mess in it own room.
5. Effluent from the boiler needs to be clean. I didnt want to have to tell my kids they couldn't go outside and play for an hour because I just stoked the boiler and I didnt want my neighbors complaining of boiler smog.

 

[OnTheRoad]

Back from the dead!

I'd love to hear what the OP wound up doing.