Fully Synthetic 2 Cycle Oil Vs Standard?

[bwalker]

Yes only for cookie cutting. Ran ST for a few tanks in a work saw once just as a test, made a mess, as expected.

FWIW it does tend to burn a bit cleaner in a liquid cooled bike motor. The higher compression ratio and cooler piston temps is the reason why I believe.
I did run a gallon and a half of leftover ST mixed at 32:1 in my Redmax 8000 backpack blower. I was using the blower to burn slash from a lot clearing job I was doing. Basically I would start a fire and run the back back blower wide open to help burn up the green, wet and dirty stumps and limbs while I fed the pile with fresh material. Worked pretty good. However, I was appalled when I inspected the piston crown through the plug hole afterwards. I ended up pully the muffler and found the entire piston skirt had very heavy varnish. It took several years of running on K2 and several treatments of mercury marine power tune to remove 90% of it.

 

[MacAttack]

FWIW I use supertechniplate and 927 in certain applications. A chainsaw isnt one of them. Even in applications that benifit from castor there are real and apparent trade offs that you have to deal with.

I've used Klotz Techniplate in my snowmobile (it's an old Polaris 700 triple cylinder) for years and it seems to be good oil, engine is still tight.

What do you run in your saws?

 

[Marshy]

 

[North by Northwest]

Well all I can say is I trust you call on that . How say you on my 10 yrs of non incident issues with Amsoil Sabre on various relatively modern former saws including Stihl MS 260 , 360 , 660 . Husky 288 xp , 357 xp & Vintage Pioneers you are already aware of and my newer Husky 576 xp , 243 xp , 346 xp & current new Dolmar 5105 H all fueled with Non Efuel ?

Actually small white lie as to Ehanol usage with the Pioneers , with the Chrome plated bores any oil washes off more readily . I run 40:1 ratio with them since their almost as old as your truly . They have been rather bullet proof normal exhaust cleaning on both every few yrs and a head gasket replacement on the P-20 in the 80,s and a primer replacement on the 11:60 and normal rim sprocket change outs b&c , filters etc. As to the usage hrs Ben well over the 500 mark estimate . These were my 1st saws in my teens bud . I cut approx 40 cord annually back then on our homestead of mixed Hard Rock Maple , Mountain Ash , Ironwood and Silver Birch & Cedar . For sentimental reasons I still fire up the Old Girls annually , however with no chain brakes or kick back guards at my age not lot of cutting for either of us !

 

[North by Northwest]

tl;dr

Do all you Michiganders utilize Acronym,s or Beta Code,s ? tl;dr ?? lol.

 

[huskihl]

Do all you Michiganders utilize Acronym,s or Beta Code,s ? tl;dr ?? lol.

Only the ones with short attention spans

 

[North by Northwest]

Only the ones with short attention spans

Baha , that's a good one , just spit out my coffee Kevin ! lol.

 

[North by Northwest]

16:1 is still common in racing. I have my own blend now I use with either Klotz original techniplate, or super techniplate, 927 would work as well. Even with the right oil some of these concoctions will still fall out of suspension quickly, only good for a few second run obviously.

As Ben explained it was about the oils ability to mix with the fuel. Gasoline is a strong solvent in it's own right and can wash the cylinder walls down too.

Correct, I understand that. When you try and start an engine by squirting fuel down the carburetor, I always use mixed fuel, to prevent the possibility of washing down the cylinder walls. Which is the main scenario I was referring to.

Same reason you use carb cleaner over ether based quick start fluids on small trimmers or blowers , although there are some quick start ether sprays that have lubricity additives . Old diesels with pup engines had a cold start ether injection system , however cyl.wall wash from ether solvency was not a concern , starting in sub zero temps was ! lol.

 

[North by Northwest]

16:1 is still common in racing. I have my own blend now I use with either Klotz original techniplate, or super techniplate, 927 would work as well. Even with the right oil some of these concoctions will still fall out of suspension quickly, only good for a few second run obviously.

As Ben explained it was about the oils ability to mix with the fuel. Gasoline is a strong solvent in it's own right and can wash the cylinder walls down too.

I agree Andre as to caster usage duration . The Competition I was referring to , that I utilized BC 172 with Methanol was Snowmobile Drag Racing via very well Modified Sleds . Eg. 650 Free Air Arctic Cat Exterminator in the early 70,s to Liquid Colexd 440 Mercury S/T & Yamaha 440 SRX in the later 70, s . Yes this 30% caster blended oil would fall out of suspension nessitating mixing and storing it in the heated trailer when not in use . Any of you Michiganders involved in MISRA will recall some of these world class racers that I eventually raced for and at times against . I eventually began running Oval & Cross Country as an Independent and then Semi Professional with backing from Polaris (Leroy Linblad) Sno-Jet (Jim Adema) until his death @ Ironwood Mich. In 75 . Then finally Mercury (Brad Hulings) my expertise was clutching and track / suspension prep . I learnt a lot from Jim on engines when I was running Thunder Jets , and suspension / track prep from Leroy may he rest in peace while running RXL,s both engineers and Brad who was a little younger than me ( both wet behind the ears still ) then and still involved in the trade today in Design . I successfully competed in the Soo 1-500 4 times also the TC-250 twice and then Sno Pro @ Ironwood Mich 3 times along with Series Championship @ Eagle River Wisconsin and the International World Championship Kawatha Cup in Peterbourough Ont . In the Spring and Summer Ran moto-cross with 350 Kawasaki & later 400 Can-Ams . I officially retired from competitive racing in 1989 at age 35 after 18 yrs to pursue my 1st love , Race Sled Prep and Design . Anyhow , yes castor has its limitations I only through it out there for consideration of its merits under certain circumstances since it was successful for me . P.S. For the record the oil I utilized regularly back then on Ovals & X-C Circuit was 1 st generation Quaker State Proprietary Race Blend or Opti-2 a very advanced oil product in the 70 s never used Techniplate ever actually . Seems like a life time ago , actually it pretty well was lol. Thanks for the Conversation , have to fire up the woodstove in the garage friends !

 

[Dave86]

It's really impossible to know for sure. Been at a very large Stihl dealership for over 40 years as a mechanic.
Seen quite a bit over the years, but never an internal engine failure that could be directly linked to the use of Stihl HP.
It's a coventional oil. Very reasonably priced.
Mixing oil at the wrong ratio, as testing has shown, might cancel any advantages that a so called " Premium "oil can offer.
Most guys have a few saws. I handle 10-20 in a week.
Poor maintence kills saws. Not a quaility oil.
Not getting into a debate with the experts. Just my experiance.

What maintenance problems are the main culprits?

 

[bwalker]

I've used Klotz Techniplate in my snowmobile (it's an old Polaris 700 triple cylinder) for years and it seems to be good oil, engine is still tight.

What do you run in your saws?

Super Techniplate is different than Techniplate. It is formulated with 10% castor.
I ran mostly Honda HP2 in my O P E this year, but I am down to 1 saw and only use it a few times a year since I moved to Montana. Most of my mixed gas usage in in my BP blower, snowblower and trimmer now.

 

[North by Northwest]

What maintenance problems are the main culprits?

Improper fuel to oil ratios or fuel to air come to mind immediately , actually as Stihl86 attributes a lack of oil not quality kills . Poor air filter maintenance , goes along way to over rich engine fuel condition with blend oil mixture going along for the ride , causes excessive oil and carbon deposits that can contribute to preignition , localized piston to cylinder head hot spots , ring fouling etc . All part of the general mtce. circle , back in the day with inferior or conventional dino oils routine 100 hr decarbonizing was part of general mtce criteria . Thank God for the new Generation Ester ( syn ) based oils of today !

 

[bwalker]

Improper fuel to oil ratios or fuel to air come to mind immediately , along with poor air filter maintenance , goes along way to over rich engine fuel condition with blend oil mixture going along for the ride cause excessive oil and carbon deposits that can contribute to preignition , localized piston to cylinder got spots , ring fouling etc . All part of the general mtce. circle , back in the day with inferior or conventional dino oils routine 100 he destabilizing was part of general nice criteria . Thank God for the new Generation Ester ( syn ) based oils of today !

Most often rich air to fuel ratios result in very clean engines with very little carbon buildup. The mufflers and spark screens do get gunked up. Higher quantity oil ratios also tends to make engines cleaner as you simply have much more detergents passing through the engine.
And the vast majority of modern two cycle oils are not nester based. I would guess that 80-90% of the JASO/ISO GD oils are do not contain ester. This is for good reason.

 

[North by Northwest]

If you use Stihl brand saws, they already do. If you run those silly toys from that country better known for cheese, good luck.
Some guys swear by Ultra. Most swear at the price. If you feel it works better than HP, by all means, use it.
In a saw, I think the orange bottle is more than sufficient.
Stihl came out with Ultra, mainly because of their 4 Mix engines.
HP will carbon up a bac pac in 50 hrs.
HP never does it to a saw.

No , apparently only Ultra carbons up a saw lol.

 

[bwalker]

No , apparently only Ultra carbons up a saw lol.

Ultra was designed as a band aid fix for the poorly design 4-mix line of engines. To solve valve deposit issues they where having from burning air cooled low ash two cycle oil in a four stroke motor. They decided it would be a great idea to go with an ashless additive chemistry oil aka marine oil. This would have been fine had they not also decided to market said oil to the two stroke user as well. Ashless oils have never worked in a 2 cycle air cooled or high bmep liquid cooled 2 motor despite plenty of attempts. The end result was very predictable.

 

[North by Northwest]

Ultra was designed as a band aid fix for the poorly design 4-mix line of engines. To solve valve deposit issues they where having from burning air cooled low ash two cycle oil in a four stroke motor. They decided it would be a great idea to go with an ashless additive chemistry oil aka marine oil. This would have been fine had they not also decided to market said oil to the two stroke user as well. Ashless oils have never worked in a 2 cycle air cooled or high bmep liquid cooled 2 motor despite plenty of attempts. The end result was very predictable.

Yepper !

 

[North by Northwest]

Super Techniplate is different than Techniplate. It is formulated with 10% castor.
I ran mostly Honda HP2 in my O P E this year, but I am down to 1 saw and only use it a few times a year since I moved to Montana. Most of my mixed gas usage in in my BP blower, snowblower and trimmer now.

Semi or blended Synthetic rated oil with what they advertise 20% Benol caster Ben . P.S. in a 2 cycle Toro snowblower ?

 

[North by Northwest]

• R

  Most often rich air to fuel ratios result in very clean engines with very little carbon buildup. The mufflers and spark screens do get gunked up. Higher quantity oil ratios also tends to make engines cleaner as you simply have much more detergents passing through the engine.

And the vast majority of modern two cycle oils are not nester based. I would guess that 80-90% of the JASO/ISO GD oils are do not contain ester. This is for good reason.

Yes , "Thank God for today's modern Full Synthetic or ester oils" would be more precise . Yes , more oil or less oil , as Harley -T suggests , which does the most damage when neglected maintenance causes a restricted air filter what says you Ben ?

 

[bwalker]

Semi or blended Synthetic. rated oil with what they advertise 20% Benol caster Ben . P.S. in a 2 cycle Toro snowblower ?

Your right 20% castor. Brain fart on my part.
Yes, 2 cycle Toro.

 

[North by Northwest]

Your right 20% castor. Brain fart on my part.
Yes, 2 cycle Toro.

No problem partner , To error is human to forgive Devine us Irish always say , just step away from the Guinness !