How important is finding no ethanol fuel ??

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
well with the marvel stuff he's running ~25:1

How much does all that cost compared to running non-corn gas?

If I pay ~$5 a gallon for 100LL and good oil it costs me way less than canned alternatives, my saws can sit for a year without a problem, the gas in metal cans mixed stores years, I don't buy carb kits and hoses E10 eats up.

5-gal of E-free XXX mix costs ~$80 do the math

And IMHO 100ll is better than the crap they sell for ~$18 -gal mixed
I wasn't asking as much from a cost or practicality aspect, as much as if the actual chemistry of the "good" and "bad" fuels is really the cause and worth any trouble at all, as some would believe.
 
I guess we are fortunate up in Alaska as there is no ethanol gas sold here. The whole idea of government heavily subsidized program of turning corn into fuel when we have plenty of oil? Crazy.
 
Things to mention about ethanol fuel. This might summarize some things up. Everybody is right and have some really good comments and experiences.
  • Different parts of the country have different mixtures and additives.

  • I understand ethanol attracts moisture, well depending where you live you have humidity or not that would be a concern.

  • Where you store your saw in a damp or dry environment, and for how long with what fuel. Cold wet concrete floor or upper shelf.

  • I’m hung up on the leave gas in the tank or run it dry method. Stihl recommends for long term storage you run it dry. You can not run it dry to the point that there is no fuel in the carburetor. Take a carb apart after you run it dry and see how much fuel is still there. It is still ethanol making contact.

  • Older equipment seems to suffer more than newer design equipment.

  • Octane is a funny number as it drops after fuel is refined based on storage type container and environment conditions. You have a good chance in a sealed metal container in a cool environment. Never store fuel in a clear plastic jug and leave it in the sun.

  • Between 87 and 91+ octane that to is location dependent. We cut at 7,000 to 10,000 feet elevation and on a hot summer day the higher octane gives better performance. I believe lower elevation it does not matter and 87 would be fine.

  • Shake any container that has oil mixed before using, even the chainsaw if it has sat for a long time to mix oil and gas together.
So, what to do? I feel for you guys with a zillion saws keeping up with it all. I’m thinking:
  • Use ethanol with good oil if you are consuming it regularly.

  • Determine your location as how much humidity and quality of the fuel sold locally.

  • If you are an occasional seasonal user, use whatever is available and consider end of the season run some canned gas product or non-ethanol pump fuel through the carb.

  • Debate is still out to run it dry or leave canned gas product or non-ethanol pump fuel in the tank. I think it is a personal choice.
  • Store your saw in a dry as possible environment, not on a cold wet concrete floor.

  • If I use pump gas 91 octane with ethanol, I will pump 5 gallons in my vehicle gas tank first to clear the hose before filling the gas can.

  • I would rather consume my corn oil in a bag of Fritos.
Just some ramblings on the subject................. Cheers!
 
I wish I'd taken a picture of my Cub Cadet that sat all winter with ethanol gas in it, come spring it looked like a tank full of jello. Never had that happen before but I take precautions now so hopefully it won't happen again..My chainsaws never see any ethanol..
The last time I used my walk behind snow blower I couldn't get it started. Pulled the bowl off the carb and it had a solid yellow chunk of jello in it. Put a new carb on it, used it that winter and sold it. Bought a 47" blower for my JD X540 so I never have to worry about carbs on a snow blower again. I use the tractor year round so fuel never gets stale in it.
 
Does fuel stabilizer have any effect in negating the alcohol affects? I have had the guys at 2 different shops don't run any small engine without it. That includes lawn tractors.
I currently use Enzyme brand. Not sure if there is a difference in brands.

I don't use them or recommend that any of our trail teams use them. Their main function is to keep the gas from turning into varnish and not from turning OLD which it will do anyway. These are fuel cooled engines and the first components to leave the gas are the high cooling volatiles. Fuel stabilizer will do nothing for this. This is why you can seize a 2-stroke with old gas almost as easily as straight gas. 4-strokes won't generally seize with bad gas they just won't run.
 
Things to mention about ethanol fuel. This might summarize some things up. Everybody is right and have some really good comments and experiences.
  • Different parts of the country have different mixtures and additives.

  • I understand ethanol attracts moisture, well depending where you live you have humidity or not that would be a concern.

  • Where you store your saw in a damp or dry environment, and for how long with what fuel. Cold wet concrete floor or upper shelf.

  • I’m hung up on the leave gas in the tank or run it dry method. Stihl recommends for long term storage you run it dry. You can not run it dry to the point that there is no fuel in the carburetor. Take a carb apart after you run it dry and see how much fuel is still there. It is still ethanol making contact.

  • Older equipment seems to suffer more than newer design equipment.

  • Octane is a funny number as it drops after fuel is refined based on storage type container and environment conditions. You have a good chance in a sealed metal container in a cool environment. Never store fuel in a clear plastic jug and leave it in the sun.

  • Between 87 and 91+ octane that to is location dependent. We cut at 7,000 to 10,000 feet elevation and on a hot summer day the higher octane gives better performance. I believe lower elevation it does not matter and 87 would be fine.

  • Shake any container that has oil mixed before using, even the chainsaw if it has sat for a long time to mix oil and gas together.
So, what to do? I feel for you guys with a zillion saws keeping up with it all. I’m thinking:
  • Use ethanol with good oil if you are consuming it regularly.

  • Determine your location as how much humidity and quality of the fuel sold locally.

  • If you are an occasional seasonal user, use whatever is available and consider end of the season run some canned gas product or non-ethanol pump fuel through the carb.

  • Debate is still out to run it dry or leave canned gas product or non-ethanol pump fuel in the tank. I think it is a personal choice.
  • Store your saw in a dry as possible environment, not on a cold wet concrete floor.

  • If I use pump gas 91 octane with ethanol, I will pump 5 gallons in my vehicle gas tank first to clear the hose before filling the gas can.

  • I would rather consume my corn oil in a bag of Fritos.
Just some ramblings on the subject................. Cheers!

An excellent description of the process. My experience is completely different on one issue is altitude. The most I run chain saws is at 8,000 feet and often with some mods. Advance timing 7 to 10 degrees and raise compression as much as possible knowing that if the saw is brought down to lower elevations that it has to be restored to a more stock configuration. The main point has been higher the elevation the less needed octane. I have worked on numerous snow mobiles and not so much chain saws at higher elevations. Thanks
 
I've posted info on this topic before, but here goes.

I have ZERO issues with any of this fuel blended with ethanol. This goes for every single piece of power equipment that I own, zero, nada......IF you follow a few simple procedures.

Never leave it in the saw or other power equipment for long periods of time without using that equipment. When the "season" is over make sure to dump the tanks and run the engine dry till it stalls out pulling the choke on it's last breath.

Next season I re-fuel and fire them up and to date I've never had a single issue with anything. This includes string trimmers, garden tiller, leaf blowers, chain saws, lawn mowers, and portable generators.

The one piece of equipment that I'd forget about was a grinder/mulcher that I hardly ever used. If I forgot to run the carb dry I'd end up taking the bowl off and dumping out the "apple jelly" and blowing out the main jet and carb. That only took about 2 minutes and it was fine afterwards.

Of course it's a little more time consuming if you have issues with an all position carburetor but even then 10-15 minutes and you are back in business.

I get chainsaws and other small power equipment in here daily because folks neglect it. I love ethanol, keeps the doors open and my wallet full. I also market some carburetor parts that are 100 percent ethanol compatible, but not for any of these applications due to the broad range of parts that would be needed. For automotive and marine applications I have a lot of those covered, including Quadrajets, AFB's, AVS's, 2GC, 4GC, Edelbrock Performer Series and a few others. It's hard to believe but accl pumps still being supplied in rebuild kits for many applications still have leather, buna rubber, neoprene or very poor quality fluorelostamer pump seals on them. Most woln't last an hour in this new fuel!.......Cliff
 
"Countering the effects" of ethanol is probably more realistic than "destroying" it. The damaging effects of ethanol seem to have a lot to do with attracting moisture and turning the gas to varnish. If an additive can help prevent the attraction of moisture, maybe it can help?

I feel like premix, with the presence of oil, helps offset the effects of ethanol somewhat...

You're probably right about the advertising hype of "destroying" the ethanol. I just prefer not to mess with it at all. The closest gas station to me refuses to stock E10 in their single pump and instead gets 91 non-ethanol. Once they started doing that the local people who used to bring their saws and mowers to me every couple months stopped showing up at all!
 
Gonna admit I do a poor job of keeping e10 out of my power equipment and rarely have trouble. I do treat all the 91 octane fuel I get for power equipment with enzyme treatment the second I get home with it. This is also the fuel I mix for saw use. I only mix a gallon at a time. Most of my cutting jobs don't exceed 2-5 tanks of fuel. I never dump old fuel....I know I should though. My old 1980-something Toro 1132 snowblower usually starts within 3 pulls after sitting all summer! After that 1 pull every time. I've never even seen the inside of the carb on it....lol
 
I run 10 percent alcohol 93 octane mixed with amsoil 2 cycle full synthetic and add sta bill marine in it the day i buy it. Typically one half gallon to one gallon mixed depending on my amount of 2 cycle stuff.
 
Ethanol facts, observations, and opinions.
Ethanol by volume has 34% less energy than gasoline.
In the olden days we would add a product called Heet to the gas tank to remove water, Heet was Ethanol.
Ethanol is about Big Agra-business, NOT renewable fuel.
Every line in an Ethanol plant is stainless steel and still needs to be replaced periodically, highly corrosive.
Every vehicle ever built with a catalytic converter runs rich so there is enough fuel to keep the catalytic converter at operating temperature.

I took a 1500 mile trip and used Regular, Ethanol, and Premium. The miles per "dollar" was the same. The better fuel cost more, but I got better mileage.
I don't ever use Ethanol, unless I have no other choice.

I use 100LL from the local airport for all my 2-cycle equipment. Swipe my card, fill my cans. $4.35 a gallon, I always mix 32/1. Some old some newer equipment. Always better to have a little to much oil, than not quite enough. Old outboards were 16/1 oil mix. 50/1 is an EPA regulation.
M2C
 
So in your opinion is there anything too this e-free paranoia?

Ethanol reacts with aluminum and magnesium to form alkoxides, that white snot stuff you find in carbs, and in saw cases too.

When you get enough water in E10, it separates, >10%. there is no hydrocarbon lubricant in that layer. Ethanol might keep things running without lubrication.


But what do I know besides saws, sometimes I teach college chemistry.
 
But what do I know besides saws, sometimes I teach college chemistry.
That's why I'm quoting you and asking questions. People are pretty devout in their ethanol beliefs. I do it because I can, and I've seen some white slimy rubber parts that I can only hypothesize come from corn gas, but I have no educated argument why.
 
Cliff r. I owned a couple boats and many outboards. I took my large outboards in to the best shop in my area and fixing the carbs cost about 1800 dollars each. But when done all the parts were ok with ethanol fuel from tank to exhaust. Still using high grade marine stabil.. and amsoil excellent mix i had no further issues.. and i was running out a lot of fuel and ran the outboards out of fuel.. end of season. I have 3 chain saws and one leaf blower that are 2 cycle..
 
Back
Top