Hard to pull start MS250?

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treesap

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Over the holidays I bought myself a brand new MS250, the holiday sale price and some reasoning by the dealer talked me into it. I had actually went in looking for something from the Pro line but the price on this was so right I took the chance.
At first I didn't think it was too bad of a saw. I wanted a saw to carry in the truck so that when I'm riding around the property, I'll have something to clear paths and roads on hand at all times. Its got a 16" bar which makes for a very well balanced and fairly light saw.

The problem is that its nearly impossible to pull start. I took it back to the dealer and he said that's just how they are. He put a D handle type recoil grip on it but that don't help much.
Just for kicks I checked the compression, and its only got 153 psi. It spins over freely with the plug out.
I tried starting it with a foot in the handle but being 6ft 4in tall and 400 lbs, that maneuver just don't work well for me. I finally resorted to putting my hitch vise in the back and using that to hole the saw by the bar.
Today, I broke the D handle they put on it. I took it back and the guy told me I need to buy a pro saw to get a compression release. I own several larger Pro saws, I rarely need the compression release to start them. None of them pull half as hard as this thing. It seems to be getting worse as it breaks in.
The dealer put a new handle on it, and sold me a spare to carry along as well. He also replaced the rope with a larger diameter because he thought the narrow rope may be part of the problem but it still pulls hard.
It starts easy, if you can manage to get a good enough grip and pull the cord fast enough. Its only got about two hours run time on it, which I suppose is far from broken in, and from what I'm told, the compression will likely increase when the rings fully seat.

I'm still running on a gallon of Stihl canned fuel I bought when I got the saw, so its their oil in the mix. I"m also running Stihl bar lube.

I can't imagine they would build anything like this? I can't be the only one who thinks these are too hard to pull start?
 
Is there a LOT smoke when it starts after sitting for a while


Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]
 
treesap said:
Over the holidays I bought myself a brand new MS250, the holiday sale price and some reasoning by the dealer talked me into it. I had actually went in looking for something from the Pro line but the price on this was so right I took the chance.
At first I didn't think it was too bad of a saw. I wanted a saw to carry in the truck so that when I'm riding around the property, I'll have something to clear paths and roads on hand at all times. Its got a 16" bar which makes for a very well balanced and fairly light saw.

The problem is that its nearly impossible to pull start. I took it back to the dealer and he said that's just how they are. He put a D handle type recoil grip on it but that don't help much.
Just for kicks I checked the compression, and its only got 153 psi. It spins over freely with the plug out.
I tried starting it with a foot in the handle but being 6ft 4in tall and 400 lbs, that maneuver just don't work well for me. I finally resorted to putting my hitch vise in the back and using that to hole the saw by the bar.
Today, I broke the D handle they put on it. I took it back and the guy told me I need to buy a pro saw to get a compression release. I own several larger Pro saws, I rarely need the compression release to start them. None of them pull half as hard as this thing. It seems to be getting worse as it breaks in.
The dealer put a new handle on it, and sold me a spare to carry along as well. He also replaced the rope with a larger diameter because he thought the narrow rope may be part of the problem but it still pulls hard.
It starts easy, if you can manage to get a good enough grip and pull the cord fast enough. Its only got about two hours run time on it, which I suppose is far from broken in, and from what I'm told, the compression will likely increase when the rings fully seat.

I'm still running on a gallon of Stihl canned fuel I bought when I got the saw, so its their oil in the mix. I"m also running Stihl bar lube.

I can't imagine they would build anything like this? I can't be the only one who thinks these are too hard to pull start?
Click to expand...

These tend to be harder to pull over and they WILL flood easily if you are not careful. This is the highest displacement in this package (MS210, 230, 250) so this recoil will work easier with the smaller saws but not yours. One thing that might help is to position the pull rope such that the piston is on the way up the cylinder and the handle is close to the case... and then give it a pull. This same technique also works well with higher displacement saws. Just grabbing at the handle and pulling is very inefficient.
 
I've got a garage full of saws, I've never had one pull this hard. It feels like its got 200 psi compression but it don't.
The carb isn't likely an issue since it starts just fine, you just have to get past the pain it pulling the rope.
It was hard to pull from the start but its gotten worse.
I did try another one at the dealer, that one was about like this one was when I first got it. I pretty much chalked that up to a new saw on the shelf not having as much oil sealing the rings.
The only way I've been to start it is either by drop starting it or clamping it in the vise.

I tried something a few minutes ago, with the plug out, the rope pulls with no resistance, but if I simply put my finger over the plug hole, the rope becomes nearly impossible to pull with my other hand. It takes very little compression to make this thing hard to pull.

I took the recoil apart but I don't see anything wrong. It spins freely, and keep in mind it is brand new. I've only had this a week. I can also turn the flywheel over by hand without too much resistance but I'm turning it by the flywheel fins. The recoil pulley on this thing is tiny, just over 1.5 inch.

It looks to me like I'm dealing with a severe mechanical disadvantage due to recoil pulley size.
 
treesap said:
I've got a garage full of saws, I've never had one pull this hard. It feels like its got 200 psi compression but it don't.
The carb isn't likely an issue since it starts just fine, you just have to get past the pain it pulling the rope.
It was hard to pull from the start but its gotten worse.
I did try another one at the dealer, that one was about like this one was when I first got it. I pretty much chalked that up to a new saw on the shelf not having as much oil sealing the rings.
The only way I've been to start it is either by drop starting it or clamping it in the vise.

I tried something a few minutes ago, with the plug out, the rope pulls with no resistance, but if I simply put my finger over the plug hole, the rope becomes nearly impossible to pull with my other hand. It takes very little compression to make this thing hard to pull.

I took the recoil apart but I don't see anything wrong. It spins freely, and keep in mind it is brand new. I've only had this a week. I can also turn the flywheel over by hand without too much resistance but I'm turning it by the flywheel fins. The recoil pulley on this thing is tiny, just over 1.5 inch.

It looks to me like I'm dealing with a severe mechanical disadvantage due to recoil pulley size.
Click to expand...
Drop start the saw if your not already it’s the easiest way I think. Just do it with the chain break on
 
SteveSr said:
These tend to be harder to pull over and they WILL flood easily if you are not careful. This is the highest displacement in this package (MS210, 230, 250) so this recoil will work easier with the smaller saws but not yours. One thing that might help is to position the pull rope such that the piston is on the way up the cylinder and the handle is close to the case... and then give it a pull. This same technique also works well with higher displacement saws. Just grabbing at the handle and pulling is very inefficient.
Click to expand...

I've posted several times about how the 025/MS250 is really hard to pull for its displacement and compression. I think it must be the starter mechanism as posted above. there's no other reason it should be so relatively hard to pull.
 
I did a google search and came up with dozens of other complaints about these being hard to pull. I wish I had done that before getting this one. The good thing is I got it cheap enough I can likely get my money back out of it.
What would be the pro model comparable in size to the MS250? Something with a decompression button on it.
From what I was shown when I bought this saw, there really wasn't a 40-45cc saw in the pro series, or the farm series either. The MS250 was it.
I was looking for something light that could run a 16" bar. The 261 was too close to my 029 although a good bit lighter.
The smaller farm saws were all in the 30cc range. I thought about an MS201 but I really didn't want a top handle for trail and clearing work, although it would take up a lot less room in the truck.
 
My opinion only, but no saw in the 45cc range should need a decompression button, don't let that be the determining factor for getting talked in to a pro-grade saw. I'm a small, lean guy at 5'9" 170-175lbs and I start my MS250 without issue(it would perhaps be more correct to say I pull it over without issue, sometimes it takes a few pulls to get it to fire if I flood it by accident with the choke, haha). I pull the cord slowly until the piston is at the top of its stroke, allow the cord to recoil, then take up any slack in the cord and give it a quick, powerful pull. I do this with the saw between my thighs, no need to drop start it. Start my 460 Husky and 372 the same way without using the decompression button on either them, there's just no need.

I do wonder if there might be some issue with your saw though because I've never found mine to be overly challenging to pull over and yours does sound like it's a bear to get started.
 
Sum-tin wrong buddy.

MS250 is a good little saw, but at 6’4” and 400# it should be a 2 finger starter for you. The only thing that could be happening is hydro-lock from leaking carb needle (which could actually only be issue at startup), the notorious failure to hear the ‘pop’ on that model in chocked mode which is flooding the saw, or the timing is too far advanced by a factory defect.

Dont care how big and strong one is, if a saw fires way before TDC it’s gonna hurt you. But I’m half your weight and 7” shorter and have never needed a decomp on anything smaller than 60cc, even with 250 psi of compression. A “D” handle on an MS250 must look amusing, lol.

Return saw and get a new 262CM and don’t look back.
 
I think there is a problem someplace with that saw, but they do pull a little harder than some smaller saws but hardly noticed, at least with the ones I've worked on in the shop.

My next door neighbor had one for a while and I had to go over and start it for him. He's in his mid-70's and just couldn't get it to pull-thru effectively. He also kept getting the choke/start switch all messed up and I'd have to take the air filter cover off and straighten that deal out just about every time I went over to start it for him. Not sure what order of events he was using but that's a different problem than just being hard to pull. I ended up trading with him for a smaller Echo top handle and he absolutely loves that saw. Another friend of mine ended up with the MS-250 and thinks it walks on water and leaps tall buildings in a single bound, zero issues starting it and she, yes she is just an average build female in her late 50's.

Overall I think the MS-250's are a decent running saw in that size/price range, and a cut above the smaller saws in that series....IMHO......Cliff
 
There is no problem getting it to start, and its never 'kicked back'. I pull the lever all the way down, pull it once or twice till it barks once, then I flip the lever up one position and it runs. Once it runs it runs fine, its light and cuts great. The problem is getting it to pull in the first place.

I would have bought the MS261 but its a larger saw, I was after a smaller saw for lighter work. The fact that the MS250 was on sale for $220 also helped make my decision. I walked into the dealer with the idea of spending $500 - $600. They talked me into the MS250 when I said the 170 was smaller than what I had in mind. All I wanted was a good all around saw that I didn't mind leaving in the truck. Something light, easy to start that would run when I needed it to.
 
I think its Stihl policy that should you not be happy with any product within the first week maybe 2 you can swap/return it no questions asked. Don't let a ignorant dealer void you of your rights. This is the time to push hard so your not stuck with something your not happy with. Start with the dealer then go to area rep.
 
treesap said:
There is no problem getting it to start, and its never 'kicked back'. I pull the lever all the way down, pull it once or twice till it barks once, then I flip the lever up one position and it runs. Once it runs it runs fine, its light and cuts great. The problem is getting it to pull in the first place.

I would have bought the MS261 but its a larger saw, I was after a smaller saw for lighter work. The fact that the MS250 was on sale for $220 also helped make my decision. I walked into the dealer with the idea of spending $500 - $600. They talked me into the MS250 when I said the 170 was smaller than what I had in mind. All I wanted was a good all around saw that I didn't mind leaving in the truck. Something light, easy to start that would run when I needed it to.
Click to expand...

You are correct in that it is the recoil pulley diameter and there isn't a lot that you can do about it other than make sure that the pulley is full when the rope is fully wound (gives you the biggest diameter) . Another possibility is to put an Elastostart handle on it from a MS260/261 series. You can try this out at a dealer who has one of these on a similar displacement stock saw.
 
I have the Elastostart handles on my 036 Pro and my 048.
When I took this back to the dealer, he swapped the handle and rope for a huge D handle. The cord is larger, I think he said its 3.5mm vs. the 3.0 mm that it came with. The Elastostart handle is an option but its not a matter of shock, its the shear force needed to turn the motor.

I think I've got it sold, I listed it on CL and I have a guy coming to see it tomorrow. I listed it for $20 under what the local hardware store sells them for. I put the original recoil handle back on it too.

Basically I've come to the conclusion that nothing I do will make this satisfactory to me, so its gotta go. One comment that another dealer made pretty much summed up the problem. He said if they weren't having issues or complaints about the MS250, they wouldn't have come out with the MS250C so quick with the Easy2Start system. I did look at the 250c model but didn't like how many times I had to pull the rope to make it run.
 

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