2-stroke engine future for F1 ??

[Sepia]

Yeah then came the computerized traction control , rev limited , better rubber compounds etc . When King Kenny won the GP -500 Championship his bike weighed 200 lbs and was producing over 200 BHP ! Riding by the seat of your pants back then literally .

Yep and that is when I lost all interest. I want to see the riders in complete control, not some software writer.

 

[North by Northwest]

Yeah I was all up in the business from 73 thru 84.

Raced MX and Road.

My first race bike then my favorite road racer.


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MX & Enduro for me . However went to numerous Pro Race Series GP & TT . I was Racing Sno-Pro Snowmobiles @ the time and my contract stated no Road Racing permitted lol.

 

[Huskybill]

You had an rz500 what a lucky basterd

My buddy who helped me learn dirtbikes always wanted one. I paid $3.500 and sold it to him for $3,500. I think they were going for $8,500 at the time. I was too big on it anyway. Thanking a friend for helping meant more. Sometimes money means nothing.

 

[Jethro 2t sniffer]

My buddy who helped me learn dirtbikes always wanted one. I paid $3.500 and sold it to him for $3,500. I think they were going for $8,500 at the time. I was too big on it anyway. Thanking a friend for helping meant more. Sometimes money means nothing.

Nice man. I've seen 1 for sale down here and 15k nz so like 8 or 9000 us bucks still 40 years later

 

[North by Northwest]

Yeah I was all up in the business from 73 thru 84.

Raced MX and Road.

My first race bike then my favorite road racer.


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Hell , recall when the RD 350 Yamaha ruled GP Racing against bikes with twice the engine displacement !

 

[heimannm]

Just FYI, McCulloch built a 6 cylinder horizontally opposed two stroke drone engine back in the '40's, I have some documentation that says at high altitudes the turbocharged version would out perform the jets.

I have a 77 In3 4 cylinder version that has never been run. There was a two cylinder version as well.



Mark

 

[bwalker]

Just FYI, McCulloch built a 6 cylinder horizontally opposed two stroke drone engine back in the '40's, I have some documentation that says at high altitudes the turbocharged version would out perform the jets.

I have a 77 In3 4 cylinder version that has never been run. There was a two cylinder version as well.

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Mark

That's not an opposed piston motor. Opposed piston motors have the two crank shafts and no heads. The combustion chamber is the area between the two opposed pistons at TDC.

 

[bwalker]

Its interesting to say the least. In marine applications, it seems direct injection 2 strokes are falling out of favor as 4 stroke outboard are getting lighter and more powerful. Yamaha and Mercury have discontinued their HPDI and Optimax DFI 2 strokes in favor of 4 strokes, not sure how much longer BRP will hold out with their E-Tec line. I dig 2 stroke engines, but DFI 2 strokes are far from what I would consider optimal. Perhaps in a racing setting where the engines are constantly torn down, rebuilt and small details are fussed over, they might be ok. I know of countless owners of DFI 2 strokes who have dealt with engine failures since these engines run exceptionally lean and with minimal oil. I currently own a Mercury Racing 250 XS on my bass boat. It's fast, but I miss the simplicity of my old Mercury 225 EFI. It was easy to work on and was stone cold reliable.

Mercury and Yamaha dumped the Opti and the HPDI because Evinrude/Rotax has all the patents for DI tied up. The current ETEC DI system is light years ahead of the HPDI and Optimax motors. They are also very reliable. When I was running a canadian fishing lodge we actually demo'ed some of the Etec engines and they were flawless.

 

[heimannm]

I see...

Mark

 

[ericm979]

I had an RZ500 too, in the early '90s. The RZ500 was not even similar either the TZ500 customer race bike or any of the OW factory bikes for guys like Roberts, other than having four cylinders and being a two stroke. It was specifically built as a street bike. Some of the parts were common with the TZR250 parallel twin version. Some were common with even older Yamahas. I went into a local Yamaha shop in search of wrist pin bearings and gave the elderly parts guy the number. If you said "RZ500" to a parts person they'd just say no. You had to have the number. I'd got a fische from someone in Canada. The old parts guy thought for a moment and said "that's off a 1969 AT125". He was right! Yamaha's parts reuse across models really saved me on that bike.

Fun RZ500 fact: Yamaha was so worried that guys would buy them, lean them out for more power and seize them, flooding the dealers with repair/warranty work, that they had Mikuni mis mark the main jets. They were 165 but marked 195.

I think that Pat Symmonds is playing some obscure political game here. The chances of F1 going two stroke are essentially zero. Two strokes are seen as dirty in many F1 markets, contradicting F1's push towards cleaner machines with the whole hybrid thing. OTOH I'd love to be wrong here and have it usher in a new era of clean two strokes.

Here's an SCCA C sports racer with a flat 6 two stroke:

 

[North by Northwest]

Nothing like the sound and smell of those highly tuned 2 strokes crackling through the chican and then accelerating out and down the stretch ..awesome !

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I never considered the RZ 500 a four cylinder anything because it is two YDS 3's welded together. However it is a motorcycle that can be ridden on a track or street with four cylinders. I would not debate what exactly it is. I understand for some that have owned them they adored them. I used to build a bunch of YDS 2's and 3's. Won several races with them. After some understanding of them they were pretty easy to work with. To run four cylinders at the same time could be fun. The RZ was not a race bike though and many loved it.
Regardless of how powerful and fast a two stroke could be you will never see any on a F 1 track. It also does not look like there will be much aspiration on the typical F 1 power plant. Of course there is much potential with that, but for many reasons the current crop of race teams have not pushed that issue.
As far as two stroke marine use it also is unlikely because of the contaminates that can get in the water. The area where I live has a pretty nice lake with many opportunities for recreation, but the owners have banned all two stroke applications. Thanks

 

[9050lx]

RZ500 was a 4 cylinder?I remembered it as a 2 cylinder.Had a lot of fun on an RD-350.

 

[bwalker]

RZ500 was a 4 cylinder?I remembered it as a 2 cylinder.Had a lot of fun on an RD-350.

4 cylinder.

 

[bwalker]

I never considered the RZ 500 a four cylinder anything because it is two YDS 3's welded together. However it is a motorcycle that can be ridden on a track or street with four cylinders. I would not debate what exactly it is. I understand for some that have owned them they adored them. I used to build a bunch of YDS 2's and 3's. Won several races with them. After some understanding of them they were pretty easy to work with. To run four cylinders at the same time could be fun. The RZ was not a race bike though and many loved it.
Regardless of how powerful and fast a two stroke could be you will never see any on a F 1 track. It also does not look like there will be much aspiration on the typical F 1 power plant. Of course there is much potential with that, but for many reasons the current crop of race teams have not pushed that issue.
As far as two stroke marine use it also is unlikely because of the contaminates that can get in the water. The area where I live has a pretty nice lake with many opportunities for recreation, but the owners have banned all two stroke applications. Thanks

The unburnt hydro carbon issue with marine engines was solved years ago.

 

[LegDeLimber]

Speaking of twin crankshaft & 4 cylinders.
The Ariel Square Four.
http://www.austinmotorscene.com/the-queens-revenge/