Question about 2 cycle oil mix and "multi-ratio" mix oils.

[cwatkin]

I have recently been seeing a lot of "multi-mix" oils out there. My dad has been using the Opti-2 oil packets for his mixes for years and uses this in all his two cycle equipment. He has worn some out but it had lots of hours on it and I cannot say this is due to the oil mix used. He also had a chainsaw that had a mount for the carburator come loose. This was a 42 cc Craftsman made by Poulan and it had cut a LOT of wood. By the time I saw this unit, it wasn't running and had virtually no compression. I got it back together and running but only if you have it running wide open. The compression is so bad that tt will not idle and is basically shot. I blame this on a likely very lean air to fuel ration which likely ran it very hot and the fact that any dirt and dust had an easy path around the air cleaner and right into the engine.

I have been seeing similar oils to Opti-2 in big box stores now. Are these multi-mix oils a good idea for most two-cycle equipment? It would be convenient to have one mix but was wondering how good this oil lubricates.

I personally have mostly Stihl equipment and run their HP Ultra synthetic (white or silver bottle) at a ratio of 40:1 or slightly higher. I sometimes have 40:1 equipment around and have been told by experienced loggers that their saws seem to last longer when run at a richer ratio. They have told me that this seemed to become a bigger issue when alcohol became so common in gas. I have heard it both runs hotter and is sometimes chemically incompatible with the oil, preventing it from adhering to metal parts of an engine. Either way, the guys with the MS-400 and MS-600 series saws around here seem to do this so I figure they are doing it for a reason.

What do people here think of multi-mix oils? Note: I also own a 4-mix FS-250 trimmer that is technically a 4 stroke engine but runs on a 2 cycle mix. I figure it wouldn't hurt the saws as much but this 4-mix is new to me so I figure I would rather stay with the manufacturer's oil on this one.

Also, are the synthetic oils worth the extra cost? Stihl doubles the warranty on most of their stuff if you buy a 6 pack of the oil at the time of purchase.

Does anyone here have a preference for oil types backed up by personal experience? I have read lots of good things about the Stihl synthetic but have nothing bad to say about the stuff in the orange bottle. I have also heard that the Echo oil is very good but it isn't easy to find in my area. Basically, I want a good oil that I can walk into any saw shop and purchase when needed. I do not want to have to order online and such.

Thanks,

Conor

 

[Brian VT]

Yay ! Another oil thread !

 

[CJ1]

Crisco makes things taste real bad, I prefer lard myself.








Pick any high quality Synthetic and have fun. the only thing I have found to be true is don't try any of the high ratio mixes like 100 to 1 in a saw like a 346, high rpms and lean mix ratios usually result in a locked up saw. My buddie sized his new 346 at 80 to 1 with Sabre oil. CJ

 

[cwatkin]

Crisco makes things taste real bad, I prefer lard myself.

Pick any high quality Synthetic and have fun. the only thing I have found to be true is don't try any of the high ratio mixes like 100 to 1 in a saw like a 346, high rpms and lean mix ratios usually result in a locked up saw. My buddie sized his new 346 at 80 to 1 with Sabre oil. CJ

Sure, I am positive that too lean of a mix will lock one up good but I an wondering about durability of the engine with different mixes. Sure, you might lock one up at 100:1 and it would run at 80:1 but will it wear out/lose compression in a shorter period of use?

Thanks,

Conor

 

[troutfisher]

I run 20:1 in most everything. Some motors get 6% oil. IMO oil is good....... stops wear, seals up piston rings, takes up a cc or two in the head for better compression, takes up a few cc's in the base. I don't understand the 50:1 or higher theory.

 

[RTK]

Does anyone here have a preference for oil types backed up by personal experience? Conor

I have a friend that runs the engine department at a UAV (unmanned spy plane) company. The engines run 10+ hours at a time and range from 28cc to 240cc 2-stroke. They have over 500,000 hours on these things over the last few years. At about 500 hours they replace them as a matter of policy even though they are perfectly good engines at that point.
My friend basically states that any good synthetic that the manufacturer recommends mixing at 40-50:1 ratio will do just fine.
They have been running Stihl ultra hp for the last year if that tells you anything...........and from my own personal experience I do believe he is right.........

 

[Cody@SPE]

In my opinion, AMSOIL is the best 2 cycle oil on the market, I mix it 80:1. I run it in everything from my 441's to my BR600. You can take the muffler off and the piston and cylinder look brand new. Doesnt foul at plugs and doesnt smoke. I buy it in bulk because it is expensive. But a $10 bottle of oil is cheaper than a $1000 chainsaw. We run into alot of oil problems at our shop. Mostly stopped up exhaust. Soo ill have to dissagree on the post that said more oil is better. Sometimes too much oil is a bad thing. Just my 2 cents

 

[cwatkin]

I run 20:1 in most everything. Some motors get 6% oil. IMO oil is good....... stops wear, seals up piston rings, takes up a cc or two in the head for better compression, takes up a few cc's in the base. I don't understand the 50:1 or higher theory.

I think the thing is to satisfy EPA air quality requirements. I understand that too much oil can foul things up and I may replace plugs more frequently by running a little rich but the engine keeps cranking.

If they are running Stihl Ultra HP in UAVs and such, I will probably just stick with this oil as it matches most of my equipment. IT would be interesting to run one of those UAV engines until failure during testing and see how long it goes. I am also new to the whole 4-mix engine, which I have one of on an FS-250 trimmer. I don't know if these are more tempremental to your oil choice but I don't want to risk it. Have any 4-mix engines come out in saws yet? If not, are there plans? I would assume they would be in the bigger, heavier saws.

Thanks,

Conor

 

[Cody@SPE]

4 cycle chainsaws are being talked about. But Ive never seen a FS250 with a 4mix engine on it. The biggest stihl trimmer/brushcutter with the 4 mix is the FS130

 

[cwatkin]

4 cycle chainsaws are being talked about. But Ive never seen a FS250 with a 4mix engine on it. The biggest stihl trimmer/brushcutter with the 4 mix is the FS130

It looks like you are right. I think I was told this had the 4-mix and always thought that it had one until I checked the manual which says it has a "Single cylinder 2-stroke" engine. Either way, I don't think the Stihl Ultra HP is a bad idea, especially if they are using in in UAV engines.

Conor

 

[ChainsawmanXX]

Pshhh I mix that stuff with my southern comfort an drink it for breakfast! Haha

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk

 

[RTK]

Either way, I don't think the Stihl Ultra HP is a bad idea, especially if they are using in in UAV engines.

Conor

When one of those little UAV's goes down it is about $150,000+ screw up. They don't want any engine problems. I believe they have tested the engines out past 2000 hours. I use ultra hp in my 4-mix stihl blower too.
The only reason for the 100:1 ratios were to come up with a low smoke and low polluting oil, nothing good or smart about running that lean.
One of the more popular synthetic oils used frequently here by many failed their testing

More oil = More power and protection

http://www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf

 

[blsnelling]

Run any quality synthetic oil at 50:1 or 40:1, in ANYTHING, period.

 

[RTK]

One more thing to add, even though the UAV's I am talking about use basically the same engines in there application, it is far more severe, they run at 75-100% power for 10 hours plus, they demand the ultimate in oils and cooling to prevent failure.

 

[johnpjackson]

The engineers that designed your engine absolutely deliberately chose what ratio of oil and fuel mix to run it on. If you choose to use a different ratio, synthetic or not, you have no one to blame but yourself if the engine fails because of a lubrication problem. Too much or too little of it. It seems ridiculous that people would play around with that, given the cost of good equipment from trusted and proven manufacturers.

 

[BigbubdaddyGus]

That's not really true about the Engineers designing for longactivity as much as they are to meet EPA standards. As long is that saw last till the warranties out that's what they're more worried about they're trying to move to meet the most stringent smoke control.
I never run less than 40:1 and sometimes 32:1 in everything and anything even New Echos still under warranty. I will say my Craftsman weed eater , bought when I got married lasted 23 years and only got replaced because my wife bought me a new Echo for Christmas.
Never have I had any oil related issues.
Other than I had rings get frozen on a Polaris two stroke because the previous owner ran TCW-3 oil and it caused hard carbon.

 

[bwalker]

One more thing to add, even though the UAV's I am talking about use basically the same engines in there application, it is far more severe, they run at 75-100% power for 10 hours plus, they demand the ultimate in oils and cooling to prevent failure.

At low load and cool temps. Ultra might work well for that, but in O P E it's not very good at all IMO.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Extra oil never hurts anything until it causes extra carbon. Extra lean never causes any problem until a hot day comes along and it scours or seizes. Take your pick or do not run any oil at all. I might want the parts. Some where in the middle of moderation is a good choice. There are enough oil threads to run to the moon and back more than once. Thanks

 

[bwalker]

Extra oil never hurts anything until it causes extra carbon. Extra lean never causes any problem until a hot day comes along and it scours or seizes. Take your pick or do not run any oil at all. I might want the parts. Some where in the middle of moderation is a good choice. There are enough oil threads to run to the moon and back more than once. Thanks

It's been my observation the more oil equals a cleaner engine. Makes sense considering as you increase oil you also increase detergents.
Most of the deposits in your motor came from the gasoline you are using anyways.

 

[RTK]

At low load and cool temps. Ultra might work well for that, but in O P E it's not very good at all IMO.

Wow old thread. The engines you quoted me in run pretty warm, if you run any 2 stroke engine to warm the coke up pretty bad. I either use stihl hp or red line racing, stihl kinda smells bad to me so i've been using red line as of late.
What is O P E?