PM Canadien

[MacAttack]

I took the recoil off the 270 yesterday to fix a broken rope. It broke because one side of the rope pulley was busted.
The recoil parts inside from pioneer 650 are identical.

one great thing about these saws is that they used common components / assemblies, such as a Fairbanks Morse recoil, Tillotson carbs, and Wico ignitions, instead of some one-off proprietary nonsense that you could never get parts for. I was able to find a new recoil spring for my 270, and then i bought a second NOS spring as a spare on Ebay for $7.

 

[ML12]

I tore down the 270, sand blasted all the castings and have a coat of self etching primer on them. The saw is in great shape.
Going to order oil seals for it today, and put the first coat of color on tomorrow.

Everything about the 270 echoes the pioneer 650. They are so similar. My serial number is in the low 400's I also assumed '61-'62 ish.

Also I can confirm that the saw takes 2 seals, both are SKF/CR 6541, which is 1.25"x0.656"x0.25" (the actual crank diameter is 0.668". I've also use a 32x17x7 seal on my pioneers that is a tighter fit on the OD, but still works. And it has 6203 bearings, shielded, but I'll replace them with open ones.

 

[MacAttack]

I'm assuming to change seals and bearings you have to disassemble the case and remove the crank? It looked like no small task in one video i watched of a 270 restoration.

 

[cbfarmall]

It's criminal to have to split that case to do seals but that's how PM and IEL designed their saws of the era. The 270/271/275/276 are all like that on the flywheel side. The big saws also have a 2nd flywheel side dust seal like McCulloch used. Later saws did away with the dust seal but I don't think PM or Skil ever got away from that seal nonsense. My problem is, on these, when I go to the trouble of pulling the bearing to do that seal I want to do the other bearing. RAs and JA/JB/JC IELs are built very similarly.

Chris B.

 

[ML12]

I'm assuming to change seals and bearings you have to disassemble the case and remove the crank? It looked like no small task in one video i watched of a 270 restoration.

Yes, the saw has to be fully torn apart and the cases split.

 

[MacAttack]

Well I'm just going to avoid doing that as long as possible, haha. The last time i ran my 270 it didn't seem to lean out or high idle so hopefully they will hang in there for a while yet.

 

[cbfarmall]

You just never know with those old seals. Some feel just fine when I replace them, some are hard as a rock. No rhyme or reason. At least the older saws turn slow enough it's easier to keep them from committing suicide. Generally they're done in by straight gas, carbon scoring, dirt ingestion or just plain wear.

When I do seals in my Canadiens, the shielded bearings go. Too inexpensive to do otherwise.

Chris B.

 

[89HD]

You just never know with those old seals. Some feel just fine when I replace them, some are hard as a rock. No rhyme or reason. At least the older saws turn slow enough it's easier to keep them from committing suicide. Generally they're done in by straight gas, carbon scoring, dirt ingestion or just plain wear.

When I do seals in my Canadiens, the shielded bearings go. Too inexpensive to do otherwise.

Chris B.

Parts of my 360 getting ready for paint, need a little JB work on the tank pinholes, then coat the inside.
The seal on clutchside looks good and is still flexible, not sure if I should split the case.
The piston and cylinder look like new.

 

[MacAttack]

You just never know with those old seals. Some feel just fine when I replace them, some are hard as a rock. No rhyme or reason. At least the older saws turn slow enough it's easier to keep them from committing suicide. Generally they're done in by straight gas, carbon scoring, dirt ingestion or just plain wear.

When I do seals in my Canadiens, the shielded bearings go. Too inexpensive to do otherwise.

Chris B.

Very true with any old parts, some seem to hold up better than others. The exhaust side of the piston in my 270 still looks perfect so things must still be in relatively good order.

If i end up with a bad bearing or a seal leak I'll bite the bullet and tear it down.

With that said, what do you guys do for head and base gaskets on these old PM saws? Do you make them? Reuse the old ones? Gasket delete?

 

[ML12]

Very true with any old parts, some seem to hold up better than others. The exhaust side of the piston in my 270 still looks perfect so things must still be in relatively good order.

If i end up with a bad bearing or a seal leak I'll bite the bullet and tear it down.

With that said, what do you guys do for head and base gaskets on these old PM saws? Do you make them? Reuse the old ones? Gasket delete?

My plan is to reuse the head gasket, and re-make the base gasket. All the other gaskets will be re-made by tracing the originals.

 

[89HD]

I got the case separated on the 19A today, one very interesting engine. Hopefully find some new bearings and seals tomorrow and get it cleaned up.

 

[ML12]

Is the crank supposed to be in 2 pieces? that's crazy!

 

[89HD]

Is the crank supposed to be in 2 pieces? that's crazy!

It is, a set screw in the top of the crank then there's a plug screwed into the case by the stator plate, has to be removed, to get at a bolt in the crank, it comes out as you separate the halves. And some pretty interesting looking roller bearings in there. It's the most interesting I've ever taken apart.

 

[89HD]

If you are getting Rings for a 270 or 275 I would appreciate knowing the sizes, what and where you find them. I was thinking of getting a set of bearings seals and Rings to keep in case I tear them down. For now when I get to them I'm just going to give them a 10 gal overhaul.

 

[MacAttack]

Damn what were they running in that 19A? Fryer oil mixed at 8:1?

Crazy about the crank, i guess that's one way to not have rod bolts...

 

[89HD]

That is corrosion inside the case, I think. I'm going to try and save the cases with epoxy and JB weld. Cleaned and soaked today see what it's like when it drys. 7 bearings involved between the crank and con rod.
I think I will build it even if I can never run it, it's a cool old saw.

 

[cbfarmall]

Sandblast the hell out of that crankcase.

Don't think I would try to put JBweld inside. Worst case, send to Shaun Carr to weld. He does mag and aluminum.

Chris B.

 

[cbfarmall]

How is that 19A crank lined up? Key?

 

[89HD]

How is that 19A crank lined up? Key?

There's a set screw in the top

 

[ML12]

Got the 270 painted yesterday, work got busy so I still haven't ordered the seals.





Should look all right when its done. I'm going to sand through the paint to expose the logo details on the top cover and clutch cover then spray the clearcoat. Going to let all that dry for at least a week first though.