huge old trees near house

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ferret

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We recently bought an old house in Western New York. The front yard is fairly small and is dominated by four enormous trees: two 60' basswoods and two slightly smaller maples. All but one of the maples is on our property; they were part of a street planting and are estimated to be 75 years old.

We paid an ISA-certified arborist $35 to give us some advice on the trees. He told us that, if they were his trees, he'd remove them all (est. $5000, although he is not equipped to do it himself) or have them all topped. I was disappointed in this opinion because I've read the ISA's own warnings about topping trees. Wouldn't topping them increase the risk of danger?

As far as health, the neighbor's maple is decaying at the bottom (he has agreed to pay for his part of any removal cost), the other maple has a large branch hanging over our house but is otherwise healthy, the tallest basswood seems healthy, the other was damaged by a storm and is missing a great deal of crown growth. It also has some openly decaying areas and dead branches.

Should I pay another certified arborist for a second opinion, taking the risk that they too will suggest topping? Or is the situation so obviously a danger to the house that I should start saving pennies to have them removed some day?

The basswoods are about 16' from the house. On the other side is a four-lane county road. I would rather not remove the trees, but if one of them fell it is tall enough to cut our house in half or block all four lanes.

Because of the crowded logistics of the situation, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to remove trees selectively. The are all in a row (neighbor's maple, our maple, healthy basswood, decaying basswood).

To be honest, I wish I'd had an arborist look over the trees before we bought the house. I would have had the sellers take 5k off the price!

Any thoughts or suggestions? I'd really appreciate it.
 
Get another opinion. Perhaps a consulting arborist. Check the ASCA website.

If an arborist recommends topping, don't pay and say that you were expecting a professional opinion.
 
You thought that you were paying for a consultation but you paid to get a bid. Very different type of business relationship.

How do you know the person is an ISA Certified Arborist? There are many people who claim to be certified but what does that mean? There is a company in town who calls their sales people Consulting Arborists. Sounds a little fishy to me.

Try to find a referral if possible. You could also qualify the person by finding out if they are active members in the NY ISA Chapter. What is their training? Ask for a copy of their business insurance and worker's comp. Get referrals from the contractor. Ask them if you could go and look at three of the jobs that they did in the last week. If they hee haw even a little about any of these items, boot 'em. Any reputable company would love to have you go look at the work they do.

Sounds like you connected with another candidate for de-Certification....

Tom
 
I would find a Registered Consulting Arborist and pay to have a risk assemsment on the trees in question.

IM(notso)HO many limbs out over roofs are no more a risk of failure than any other part of the tree.

If you have some trees that need immidiate removal, then put that money into them now, the others can wait.

Here is the ASCA page http://www.asca-consultants.org/ I've met a number of ther RCA's that operate in the NY area, and have been very imprest with the depth of their knowledge.

I too would be underwhelmed by a person who told me to remove all my trees by just awalking up to them.:rolleyes:
 
basswood

If you do cut the trees wood carvers like basswood, aroud here there have been three stolen from homeowners yards while they were on vacation. Basswood is easy to carve and less prone to spliting and cracking than most woods.
 
Tom and John, hit the points that
1. you get what you pay for.
2. check references.
3. check for certification.

Certification is a measure of a current level of knowledge. Which your experence shows can be limited. Tom's right you paid for a bid not for an evlauation/recommendation of the trees.

I would get a second opinion from an ASCA reg. arborist in your area.
 
Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I've got a lot to learn about being a homeowner. I just hope the education doesn't get even more expensive.

BTW, I found this arborist through the ISA's NY area website.
 
One of the problems with ISA is that it is a minimum knowledge certification. If you hire one you may be getting someone that is more interested in getting a boat payment from you.

Like a auto repairt garage, there are good and bad ones amongst us.

Which is why we stress ASCA Registered. Their acredidation prosess is more stringent and thier service is to inform you, not to get you to buy a service.

The good ones do not come cheap, but it is an investment in some irreplacable parts of your property, and your piece of mind.
 
Second opinions never hurt.

There are instances where topping is reasonable. Sometimes certain trees have been neglected, or, topped once followed by allowing many, many sprouts to twist here and yonder.

On a few trees like that, as long as topping cuts don't exceed 2" to 4", it may be better to cut all the absolutely useless crud and junk, then, selectively thin, and properly train the tree on a routine basis.

That would be for some trees, and an experienced pruner would be able to determine if the tree showed enough vigour and potential to carry out this feat.

Apple would be the most common of this situation in Oregon country. But many other trees - especially deciduous - can be "rebuilt" rather than removed.

And, the crud in a severe situation does not need to be topped out in one swift severe operation either.
 
That would be called "crown restoration", not topping. I do it several times a year.

I have retopped a few trees with unsound wood. Onlu where the client understands that the tree needs to have this done on a regular cycle for risk management, in writing.

I will drop crotch a tree to divert a topping, but agree with those who say it is a poor excuse for tree work. You still have poor decay resistance in wall one of the CODIT modle, just as with a topping. heavy sprouting will usualy occure....

I feel the risk of succulent epicormic sprout failuer not worth the possible incom from the topping job, along with the aeshtetic argument.

If it is a small tree and the little old lady needs the shade for her few remaining years.......
 
I'm more with Vaden on this one , JPS. Thinning sprouts is not rocket surgery nor is it prohibitively expensive. As you know I got commitments to re-prune in August 2005 many of those trees that we left all those horrible stubs on Dec 2002 in Raleigh. Customers see value of tree versus stump.

On restoration and reduction I use heading cuts; if made to nodes CODIT works better and vigorous sprouts can dominate and become good branches after only two pruning cycles. See the May issue of Tree Care Industry magazine for 2442 words of poorly illustrated sledgehammer persuasion that HEADING CUTS ARE OFTEN BETTER THAN DROP CROTCHING. I'll make sure the pictures get embedded next time.

JPS thanks for sharing the term "dynamic mass" referring to tree structure and stability. I always thought of a dynamic mass as the times Father Murphy got into the sacrificial wine and the choir got rockin' in the good old days at St. Sebastian's on Washington Boulevard.
 
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