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041 EI conversion?

Indiana John

Indiana John

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I apologize if this question has been asked before, but I looked thru several pages of posts and didn't find an answer. I am having ignition problems with both my Stihl 041 saws. The AV will start and run for a very short time, then pop back thru the carb and die. I've went thru the fuel system and everything there is fine (thought maybe it was leaning out). I described the problem to an experienced Stihl mechanic I know, and he said it was a classic sign of a condensor going bad. Also my Farm Boss has suddenly developed intermittent spark issues. The local Stihl dealer wants almost $60 for a new set of points and condensor ($120 for both saws!). To me that just seems rediculous. Then there is the PITA of having to use a special puller just to get the flywheel off. It seems to me, that the ideal solution would be to convert both saws to electronic ignition. My small engine parts supplier stocks a couple different versions of those little EI conversion modules for small engines (a single-wire and a two-wire). Can I simply use one of these modules on these saws, maybe mounted in place of the points? Or is it more complicated than that? I've been working on lawn equipment all my life (including chain saws), but I haven't tried anything like this before, so any info would be much appreciated. If I can do this on these saws, maybe I can also do it on a couple of other old points-ignition saws I have.
Thanks!
 
Lakeside53

Lakeside53

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Your problem is most likely your condensor. I'd just pop in a new condensor and clean the points. The old points base system produces a great spark... and is very reliable.

Yes, some aftermarket electronic modules will work also.. It's easier to just cut the wires to the points (leave the flywheel in place) and mount the module to one of the coil screws.
 
HiOctane

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Ignition module is probably not more expensive than the condenser itself,i would go the the EI way,easy to install and last forever.Plus you dont have to remove the flywheel.
 
NIP Group
Justsaws

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I will add that the original point setup might run with more "umf" if it is installed correctly. Sometimes the older Stihl saws do not seem to respond as well to the after market modules as well expected. They will run just not as strong as the points and condenser setup.

I use a lot of those after market modules on many different saws and have always had good results, but sometimes the some saws just run better with points. I am currently using the modules from Stens as my supply of Atom brand is just about gone. I prefer the Atom brand but have never found a dealer. Stihl markets a module as well I think.

If you really like the saws and enjoyed the way they ran go with OEM parts. If the saw is all but used up and near death go with a module. That is my opinion.
 
Indiana John

Indiana John

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Well, I know that points work well, but my issue with them (at least on these saws) is the high cost of the parts and the PITA involved in installing them. You need a special tool to pull the flywheel, and from what the Stihl mechanic told me, another special tool to be able to set the gap. So in order to have the local Stihl dealer replace the points and condensor will be over a $100. Seems kinda steep to me. And EI is a much simpler and more dependable system. I guess if I could buy the parts for a reasonable price and install them myself, I wouldn't mind sticking with the points. So to me, trying one of those modules makes the most sense for me. Unfortunately in order to get to the wire from the coil to the points to connect the module, it looks like I'll still need to get the flywheel off (the only wire outside the flywheel is the kill wire), but I should be able to get just that done cheap or maybe even free. Thanks for the info!
 
Lakeside53

Lakeside53

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The points last 25-50 years. Points on stihl saws aren't even particularly unreliable. Most that replaced don't need to be... The condenser is $22 list price, and it only takes a few minutes to remove the flywheel. It does help to have the right tool, but a nice dealer will whip it off for a small donation if you have it exposed.

Back to the electronic module - you don't need to remove the Flywheel to get to any wires - just snip it if where it goes under the flywheel - there is plenty of room to make a connection. Same with the wire that goes to the shut-off switch. Edit -this is not corrrect for the 041 - skip down a few posts...
 
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Indiana John

Indiana John

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Well, my local dealer must be getting a heckuva markup then! They told me it would $30 for a condensor and about the same for a set of points. And unfortunately on the 041, no matter what you do with the ignition, you still have to pull the flywheel, as EVERYTHING is under the flywheel except the plug wire and kill switch wire.
 
Lakeside53

Lakeside53

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Ah... I was thinking of the wrong saw! Sorry.. yes, the coil is on the Strator plate on all versions of the 041.. and I was also wrong about the condenser - the 041 uses an even cheaper part (not sure which one you have)

the 1106-404 3401 lists for $9.90
the 1115 404 3401 lists for $13.25. Both are available.

If you do convert to electronic, you mount the module on the stator plate where the points are currently located.

I can send you an entire stator plate with coil, points and cap that came out of a working saw for $10 is you want to go that route, but all that's likely wrong with yours is the condenser.
 
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Indiana John

Indiana John

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Thanks! I'll probably take you up on that offer, as I plan to keep these saws for a long time and spare parts are always a good thing to have (especially at my local dealer's prices!). At least the Farm Boss anyway, I haven't been able to run the AV enough yet to know much about it. It was a "saw-in-a-box" when I got it, so I really don't know anything about it's history. I've replaced the fuel line and filter in it, as well one of the AV handle rubbers, overhauled the carb and once I knew it would start, I put a new chain on it. When I took it to the woods I found out about the problem. I'm hoping that once I get the ignition fixed it will make a good saw. I know these old 041's will pretty much run forever when taken care of properly.
 
Indiana John

Indiana John

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Thanks! I'll probably take you up on that offer, as I plan to keep these saws for a long time and spare parts are always a good thing to have (especially at my local dealer's prices!). At least the Farm Boss anyway, I haven't been able to run the AV enough yet to know much about it. It was a "saw kit-in-a-box" when I got it, so I really don't know anything about it's history. I've replaced the fuel line and filter in it, as well one of the AV handle rubbers, overhauled the carb and once I knew it would start, I put a new chain on it. When I took it to the woods I found out about the problem. I'm hoping that once I get the ignition fixed it will make a good saw. I know these old 041's will pretty much run forever when taken care of properly.
 
ciscoguy01

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041

Actually dude, I've got the same exact pair. An 041AV farmboss and an 041 farmboss. Both great running saws, excellent power. I had the same exact problem with my 041AV dude. It ended up being the vacuum hose that goes from the carb to that thingy, lol, up front. It spitted and sputtered and was misfiring etc... Soon as I replaced it and adjusted the rich/lean, it's been running like a champ for a couple months now. it's prolly cut 10 face cord of wood. Check that, replace those hoses FIRST. Make sure you adjust your carb and go from there dude. Just an idea. It sounds EXACTLY the same as mine did when I found that problem. Hope it helps.:popcorn:
 
Indiana John

Indiana John

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I appreciate the suggestion, but I've went thru everything related to the fuel system. The first thing that popped into my head when I found this problem was that the saw was leaning out, as a backfire thru the carb is a good indicator of a lean mix. That when I finally consulted with the Stihl mechanic I know, and he told me it needed points and condensor. I went into sticker shock when the parts guy told it would be almost $60 for the parts alone!
 
ciscoguy01

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Stop stop stop

Indiana John said:
I appreciate the suggestion, but I've went thru everything related to the fuel system. The first thing that popped into my head when I found this problem was that the saw was leaning out, as a backfire thru the carb is a good indicator of a lean mix. That when I finally consulted with the Stihl mechanic I know, and he told me it needed points and condensor. I went into sticker shock when the parts guy told it would be almost $60 for the parts alone!
My hose was plugged though dude. Just humor the 25cents and get new hoses. Then, look on this site for you part dude.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfrppZ25QQfrtsZ50QQsassZretoocs555

Here's your ignition system... bid it, you might get it for like $20
 
ciscoguy01

ciscoguy01

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Pm

Indiana John said:
Well, I was pretty sure I had checked that hose too, but I just got the saw back out and checked it again. Hose is fine and not plugged. So I'm back to ignition. Thanks for the link.
PM this dude. retoocs555 It's his stuff, he's on here. I'll just bet he has another one over there in VT buddy. Under members list, go to like page 9 or 10 under the R's. That'll getcha goin' ma man. I hate seeing one of my saw's brothers down... lol

Or link

http://arboristsite.com/member.php?u=7373
 
Brushwacker

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The electronic module selling on ebay for $17. worked excellant for me on an 032. I mounted it on top the saw .
I presently have an 041 farm boss and an av model which I put a new set of rings in last week but havent finished putting together yet. I have an extra carb I am going to try on this saw,so if it works will have an good spare carb.I also have several other 041 parts.I just picked up an Homelite EZ that doesn't run also. Has a bar and chain,never checked the bars condition but could if your interested.
What town are you near IN John?
 
Indiana John

Indiana John

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I'm not too far from you. I'm near Logansport. I'm looking for a 18" - 20" bar for the Homelite, as I've got several other saws in the 14"-16" range already. Looks like I mayalso be looking for a new EI coil for it too. For some reason, I seem to be having a lot of ignition problems lately........................... :censored:
 
Indiana John

Indiana John

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Another ignition question

I've just about given up on converting with stock parts after being beat out three times so far on fleabay! Anyway, I borrowed a small two-jaw puller and popped the flywheel off on both these saws. I can't quite figure out how you are supposed to get the condensor out of that plate. I pulled the plate off on one saw, thinking maybe it was screwed to the back of the plate, but I was wrong. Looks like it must be pressed into the plate, but it seems like a pretty risky idea to me. I'd think the force required to press the condensor in and out of that hole would likely damage it or break/crack the plate. It that the way it works???
 
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Lakeside53

Lakeside53

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Yes, it presses out. If you are concerned support the area around the condenser (like with an thin-walled socket or pipe).. before pressing... The plate is pretty strong though...
 
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