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070 vs 090 vs something else

Discussion in 'Milling & Saw Mills' started by Tim_10, Dec 22, 2018.

  1. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    What type of wood are you cutting there? Have you only used Oregon ripping chain filed at 0 or have you used other brands, grinds, filing at different angles, how low do you set your rakers? What size chain are you using, .404?
     
  2. ML12

    ML12 ArboristSite Operative

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    That wood is big leaf maple, its considered a hardwood here but it isn't that hard compared to what others in Australia and the eastern USA are milling. We have only used the Oregon ripping chain, and some standard stihl chisel, round filed at 30 degrees for when surface finish is less important. We only use .404 full comp in .063" gauge on the 090, no 3/8 or skip. The speed with ripping chain is only slightly slower than non-ripping chain, at least for the stuff we have cut.

    The rakers are set in a very unscientific way (sorry everyone, don't really have the time to use a digital angle gauge on each one, I wish I could) we found that the "out-of-the-box" 0.025" raker height wasn't low enough, so we kept dropping it until we reached about 0.045" which seems like a lot, but the saw self feeds nicely and doesn't really bog with a 36" bar. We primarily cut softwoods though cedar, pine, fir etc, with the odd hardwood, maple, or birch. Our general rule of thumb is to use the chain until the cut slows then touch up the teeth, only filing the rakers when the speed doesn't come back after a quick touch up.

    I've used a pioneer p50 (82cc) with 3/8 full skip, chisel chain to mill cedar (very soft) and it did quite well, but the surface finish is much more wavy.
     
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  3. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    Do you know how big leaf Maple would compare to Black walnut?
    I'm planning on trying a few variations of .404 chain when I get my 090: ripping chain vs semi chisel 20-30 degree vs Malloff style. Along with lowering the rakers, I do use the DAF (once you find a rhythm it does go pretty fast)
    With my 066 I've used 3/8 semi chisel, full skip at 30 degree and rakers at about 8 degree in soft pine and hard black walnut (rakers at about 6.5 degree) with good success. Finish was better in the pine than the Walnut but either way I feel once dried they need a final flattening with my router sled so finish doesn't seem to be all that important.
    I myself am going to have to buy some longer rails for my mill. I've read 80/20 works well, have you thought about that? And it didn't seem to be all that expensive compared to Granberg.
     
  4. ML12

    ML12 ArboristSite Operative

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    I don't know how it would compare to black walnut, but I would imagine that it is softer. I'd recommend .063" gauge chain for the 090. Id also recommend getting your hands on some full chisel instead of semi, I've found that it cuts better (in general, if the wood is clean).

    Milling always seems like a last minute decision around here so I tend to not have as much prep time as I would like. I do agree with surface finishing not being too big of an issue though, I too use a router sled to flatten out slabs, but previously I used a large hand plane and a belt sander, so it was more of a big deal.

    I have also heard about 80/20 working well and being cheaper. Its likely the route I will take, one day, when I finally get around to it.
     
  5. rarefish383

    rarefish383 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I’ve found that Black Walnut mills easier than Red Oak.
     
  6. hsimauqs

    hsimauqs New Member

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    Hi - I'm a beginner miller with an 070 currently running .404 chain. Due to a series of mishandled orders I've ended up with a 42" bar and chain pitched at 3/8" - I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if I can run a 3/8" sprocket on my 070, or if I'm stuck rethinking my whole setup for milling larger wood. Sorry to pile into this thread but hopefully some expert eyes are on it.

    Thanks in advance
    Matt
     
  7. Ted Jenkins

    Ted Jenkins Firewood by TJ

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    For you there is not a wrong answer. Going with the 3/8 will work going with the 404 will work. My 02 is that the 3/8 will make a little finer cut than the 404. The 404 last longer staying sharp. The 070 will be easier to run the 404 in that it was designed to run. I would dump the 3/8 stuff and get a 404 setup way less headache. The 3/8 will not oil quite as well. Thanks
     
  8. hsimauqs

    hsimauqs New Member

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    Thanks Ted - do you know what is involved with changing over to running the 3/8 chain on the 070 currently setup for 404 ? I'm gathering I need a new sprocket at the very least, correct ?
     
  9. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    Sprocket, bar, and chain all have to match.
     
  10. hsimauqs

    hsimauqs New Member

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    Ok I guess a more specific question is necessary - does anyone know the part number for a 3/8 sprocket for another STIHL saw that will fit on an 070 or 090? I went in and spoke with my dealer and looking in the computer he said the 070 and 090 both only have 404 or 1/2" sprockets available, can I grab a 3/8 drive sprocket from a ms660? Or am I looking at something much more complex. Will take some measurements this week but my powerhead is currently stashed in the woods and a bit of a walk to recover.
     
  11. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    I would say go to the "beg for manuals" thread and ask for the IPL and service manual for the 070. All I have is the IPL for the 090 and it only mentions the .404 and 1/2" sprocket. Looking around though it looks like the ID of the sprocket has to be 22mm. Pop yours off and double check that. If that's in fact true then I just measured my rim sprocket for my 066 and it's 22mm so one of those may work.
     
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  12. hsimauqs

    hsimauqs New Member

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    Tim you're a beauty, I appreciate it.
     
  13. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    I'll reiterate what Ted mentioned though, I'd run the .404". Better oiling capability and also have an aux oiler on your mill also with a 42" bar.
     
  14. Tim_10

    Tim_10 ArboristSite Member

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    You're welcome. Just trying to help you out. Many people have helped me out so trying to do the same with the minimal knowledge I have.
     
  15. ML12

    ML12 ArboristSite Operative

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    You could also just change out the sprocket tip on the bar to a .404 one... it would be a cheaper option. I'm sure that Oregon made a floating rim drive clutch drum for these but I don't know the part number. What I do know that if you can find one it will be very, very, expensive and it'll have to be purchased on ebay. I have a 090 and have looked into upgrading, and it is a pricey (~$200) endeavor. No other saw that stihl makes has a clutch that fits.

    As far as changing the sprocket tip, just make sure the gauge of the bar is 0.058 or 0.063, those are the only gauges that .404 comes in. sprocket tips are around $40CAD installed. I'd second running an auxiliary oiler.

    We just upgraded the mill. Its now got a 55" cut width with a 60" Cannon bar.
    20190208_163008.jpg

    20190208_194512.jpg
     
  16. Ted Jenkins

    Ted Jenkins Firewood by TJ

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    I tried this particular conversion last summer. Actually I tried this two times in the past couple of years. The first time I tried it worked perfectly except I scrounged old parts I had to make it work which were in sorry condition. When I wanted to upgrade to non worn out stuff bang. The parts I wanted were either back ordered or NA. The project failed. If you can get a 22mm clutch drum then it is possible. The 3/8'' rim is made in a 22mm size. So you get a 22mm clutch stick the 3/8'' rim on it. I am not aware of any large mount bar that have a 3/8'' nose. So you have to get a Oregon bar or Stihl bar to what ever size you want then change the nose to 3/8''. Put it together and go mill. For me it became too much of an ordeal to make it practical. I almost fired up my lathe to make it happen. Now I am glad I did not. The 404 set up is just better all the way. Thanks
     
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  17. J-Rod

    J-Rod New Member

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    I see you like your Stihls! Nothing wrong with that but another option for the big CC saws is the Echo CS1201. I know some guys pull them down to parts and try to bring them in, but of course the parts availability and stress to get parts would be an issue, so I think your best bet is to find the largest saw you can get service for...most likely Husky 3120XP or Stihl MS880. Torque is what you want for milling, especially when utilizing a long bar.
     
  18. Ted Jenkins

    Ted Jenkins Firewood by TJ

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    As several AS folks have pointed out the big bore saws work very well. The MS 066 is a great saw, but for milling might not be the best miller. Also Stihl is not the only brand that can perform well in a milling situation. The 404 set up does well in the oiling department coupled with a full torque motor. Thanks
     

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