100 Year Old Catawba

[Whitespider]

...I love that tree. When it's in flower it is beautiful...

Heck, the whole homestead is beautiful.
Too bad about the tree; having it gone will change the whole look of the place.
Not that the place will be ugly... it will still be beautiful, just different is all.

I've always loved that New England(ish) look... and the backdrop is perfect for yours.
(Yeah, I know you're not technically in "New England"... but still.)
*

 

[hardpan]

Beautiful tree and fits perfect with the house (looks like a post card) but you know the threat and it has to come down. We're not making you feel better, sorry.

 

[Chris-PA]

Heck, the whole homestead is beautiful.
Too bad about the tree; having it gone will change the whole look of the place.
Not that the place will be ugly... it will still be beautiful, just different is all.

I've always loved that New England(ish) look... and the backdrop is perfect for yours.
(Yeah, I know you're not technically in "New England"... but still.)
*

Thanks - it's really a typical Pennsylvania German bank house, which is fairly distinct from what was built farther north. It's also needs a lot of work now. We spent 11 years restoring a larger center hall stone house, but sold it as the area was being overrun with development. This house didn't need much when we moved in, and so I could spend my efforts on the barn and pasture, etc. But it's amazing what a decade and the wear and tear of kids and pets will do. It makes getting the firewood in a challenge at times.

We've lost a lot of big trees in the storms of the last few years. I used to think the catawba was fragile since they lose a lot of small stuff, but it has held up much better than the oaks. I don't really consider oaks to be strong trees anymore - the roots are too easily pulled up.

Just sitting outside waiting for the next torrential rain to come over, watching the clouds approach and the trees blowing.

 

[H-Ranch]

Supposedly it will resprout from the stump. I don't know that for a fact, never cut one down.

I don't see the need for a hybrid anything - tulip trees and catawbas grow very fast. I have tons of oaks and tulips, and the catawba is more interesting and unusual even though they are a native species. Those huge leaves are a PITA when they come down, but provide very good shade. I've got quite a few small ones around in the woods, so I might be able to dig one out with the back hoe and get a couple years head start.

Yeah, that sure is closer than I would like it - but it's an old mistake! If not for that I would want to see if it pushed up any shoots from the stump.

Like this? When we bought this house one of the two catalpa trees next to each other had been cut. Every year or two I have been cutting the growth from the stump as it gets to be a pain to mow around. These can't be more than three years old and several are well over my reach. They still have leaves as big as dinner plates.

 

[Chris-PA]

Like this? When we bought this house one of the two catalpa trees next to each other had been cut. Every year or two I have been cutting the growth from the stump as it gets to be a pain to mow around. These can't be more than three years old and several are well over my reach. They still have leaves as big as dinner plates.
View attachment 350531

Yup! They're really kinda weeds.

 

[pennsywoodburnr]

Like this? When we bought this house one of the two catalpa trees next to each other had been cut. Every year or two I have been cutting the growth from the stump as it gets to be a pain to mow around. These can't be more than three years old and several are well over my reach. They still have leaves as big as dinner plates.
View attachment 350531

I had a white oak that I cut up on my property a few years back do the same thing. Got tons of little offshoots coming out of the stump now. I thought oaks weren't supposed to regenerate after being copiced (or whatever that term is called when you cut the stump flush with the ground). Maybe it depends on when you cut it? That oak was dropped in the middle of summer.

 

[Chris-PA]

I had a white oak that I cut up on my property a few years back do the same thing. Got tons of little offshoots coming out of the stump now. I thought oaks weren't supposed to regenerate after being copiced (or whatever that term is called when you cut the stump flush with the ground). Maybe it depends on when you cut it? That oak was dropped in the middle of summer.

I've got a red oak doing that now - it was growing too close to the barn, then it split down the middle. I cut it down a couple of years ago, but it keeps trying. I even sprayed the shoots with roundup last summer, but I just noticed it's giving it another try.

 

[johninky]

May be largest in the world. Have it checked out by American Forests’ National Big Tree Register. Bragging rights.

 

[mainewoods]

For what it's worth, some "experts" recommend carefully scraping the rot out of the hole, without touching any of the sound wood.Swabbing with a sulfur and lime mixture will kill the fungus and bacteria( so they say). Dry thoroughly, and fill the cavity with expanding foam to seal out moisture. Getting rid of the rot and decay certainly can't hurt. Many others have filled the cavity( after fully dried) with concrete and had success. Arborist's don't recommend it, and I can see why they wouldn't.

 

[Chris-PA]

For what it's worth, some "experts" recommend carefully scraping the rot out of the hole, without touching any of the sound wood.Swabbing with a sulfur and lime mixture will kill the fungus and bacteria( so they say). Dry thoroughly, and fill the cavity with expanding foam to seal out moisture. Getting rid of the rot and decay certainly can't hurt. Many others have filled the cavity( after fully dried) with concrete and had success. Arborist's don't recommend it, and I can see why they wouldn't.

Picking out the rot was what I was doing when I broke through. It appears dry in there, although now there is a hole. The volume of the cavity is huge, and if I were to try filling anything it would just be the hole I opened and the one in the branch above it (which was improperly cut at some point in the past and so has not been able to heal).

Filling the entire cavity would not be reasonable, and would not improve the strength of the tree anyway.

 

[pennsywoodburnr]

I've got a red oak doing that now - it was growing too close to the barn, then it split down the middle. I cut it down a couple of years ago, but it keeps trying. I even sprayed the shoots with roundup last summer, but I just noticed it's giving it another try.

I'm starting to wonder if covering the stump itself with something that drowns out the sunlight wouldn't be the answer. Maybe like a couple tarps layered over each other?

 

[mainewoods]

Expanding foam won't strengthen the tree for sure, just help prevent moisture and fungus from causing more rot. With a hole as huge as you say it is, I'm afraid the old girl is standing on borrowed time. That is a beautiful house, it would be a shame to see it get damaged, or worse, someone get hurt.

 

[brewmonster]

As others have said, beautiful tree, beautiful homestead! I agree with you, Chris, about the desirability of shade trees, even the ones close to the house. If I removed all the trees that could hit my house, I'd be left with no trees at all. I'll be grateful for the beauty and the shade and take my chances.

I also agree with you about staying away from fast-growing and, IMHO, junky trees like hybrid poplar. There are plenty of native species that would be suitable and much more attractive and long-lived.

 

[hardpan]

That monster is irreplaceable but you may consider something like this company. I am in no way connected with them but I will be trying their trees. The top address is their home page and the ones below explain their "rapid mast" trees. A guy I work with got his order last week and his seedlings look exactly like the
ones in the presentation. Time will tell.
http://www.nativnurseries.com/t-home.aspx
[URL='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNBRJ8zhG2w&list=PL5FCFD7DE6CFB5617']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNBRJ8zhG2w&list=PL5FCFD7DE6CFB5617


[/URL]

 

[Festus]

It's been said before, but that sure is a pretty place and a unique tree. Unfortunately, I think removing the tree is the best answer. Unlike a normally constructed home, damage to those stone walls would be challenging to fix, to say the least. Although I'm sure it can be done, I don't know if the house would ever be the same. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think it's worth risking that gem of a house. Out of curiosity, do you have any idea how old the house is?

 

[Chris-PA]

That monster is irreplaceable but you may consider something like this company. I am in no way connected with them but I will be trying their trees. The top address is their home page and the ones below explain their "rapid mast" trees. A guy I work with got his order last week and his seedlings look exactly like the
ones in the presentation. Time will tell.

That is interesting. I would likely be planting another catawba there, as I have plenty of oaks (most are shumards around here). They don't seem to say what they do to get those root masses on their seedlings, but I guess that is their secret.

It's been said before, but that sure is a pretty place and a unique tree. Unfortunately, I think removing the tree is the best answer. Unlike a normally constructed home, damage to those stone walls would be challenging to fix, to say the least. Although I'm sure it can be done, I don't know if the house would ever be the same. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think it's worth risking that gem of a house. Out of curiosity, do you have any idea how old the house is?

Yeah, I will be asking for professional advice on it, but I doubt anyone will feel comfortable telling me it is safe as-is. I know it needs to go, but it's going to have such a big impact. It will at least get to flower once more.

Dating old houses in this region is something I spent many years studying. There is a pamphlet titled The Dating of Old Houses by Dr. Henry C. Mercer ( http://www.amazon.com/The-dating-old-houses-Doylestown/dp/B0006WKI04 ) that is very accurate for this region, based on shapes of molding and iron technology (nails, hinges, latches, etc.). Unfortunately this place had been remodelled in the 1950's by an architect who joined two separate structures together. The little 2-1/2 story structure next to the tree was a very simple thing and I have not found many original nails. The other slightly larger structure appears to be from the 1830's based on nails and other clues. It's not as old as many nearby places, but that date seems about right as we're on a hill area right next to a lot of good flat farm land. Nobody would have built up on this rocky hill if they could have gotten good farmland, so this was not used until later. This was a poor-man's hardscrabble farm, and I can see fields they never finished clearing (now gone back to woods).

 

[mainewoods]

It's still a beautiful house no matter how it was "remodeled".

 

[hardpan]

That is interesting. I would likely be planting another catawba there, as I have plenty of oaks (most are shumards around here). They don't seem to say what they do to get those root masses on their seedlings, but I guess that is their secret.


They won't give away their secret of course and they don't have a big variety but they are not the only ones doing this type of thing. The accelerated growth is mostly from the crazy over sized root ball. Perhaps someone is doing this with catawba? The coal mine company I work for is buying from another company with a similar system called "rpm" but they don't seem to cater to the small order individuals like me and are more expensive.
https://www.extension.iastate.edu/f..._2012/2012_tristate_ talks/RPM_production.pdf

 

[brewmonster]

Hey, hardpan, the seedlings in that video are impressive, but I'd be concerned about winter hardiness. Grown in Mississippi from, presumably, local seed stock? Just sayin'.

 

[ShaneLogs]

Time to turn it into firewood!