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2 cycle oil choices

czyhorse

czyhorse

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I fear I am opening a can of worms here but I really would like to know more. I recently switched to synthetic 2 cycle oil because I am a big believer in synthetic oil versus conventional oil being better and giving longer engine life. My big question is does brand really matter. I am using a “store” brand generic synthetic oil. I love Lucas oil products but it is literally twice the price. Does it really matter? When royal purple, Lucas oil, Sthil, husqvarna, and the like cost 50 to 100% more can you justify that quantitatively? What do they have that the generic synthetic 2 cycle oils don’t have? I am not trolling or looking for a fight. Can you really justify the extra cost? And if so what do you base your conclusion on?
 
RED-85-Z51

RED-85-Z51

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Does it matter. Short answer, yes.

Long answer, is a 500 dollar top end worth risking over shaving cost on oil?

In my shop i run opti2, 32oz for 34 dollars, and always only run Ethanol Free fuel. Good oil is cheap insurance. Run cheap bar oil, buy a cut rate chain...but protect the engine

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banditt007

banditt007

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Make sure it passes jaso FD and iso EGD and then from there find the cheapest one. Then you know you are getting quality at a lower price. Now there are companies that CLAIM to pass these tests, and others that pay the $ and actually get certified.. Lucas claims on i think its 2 of their oils to pass the tests. Their semi syn is $30 a gallon on amazon right now and the full syn is $37. Thats 23 and 29 cents an ounce.....
 
Timber MacFallen

Timber MacFallen

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I fear I am opening a can of worms here but I really would like to know more. I recently switched to synthetic 2 cycle oil because I am a big believer in synthetic oil versus conventional oil being better and giving longer engine life. My big question is does brand really matter. I am using a “store” brand generic synthetic oil. I love Lucas oil products but it is literally twice the price. Does it really matter? When royal purple, Lucas oil, Sthil, husqvarna, and the like cost 50 to 100% more can you justify that quantitatively? What do they have that the generic synthetic 2 cycle oils don’t have? I am not trolling or looking for a fight. Can you really justify the extra cost? And if so what do you base your conclusion on?

There is most certainly a difference in oils out there in terms of the quality. However, when it comes to 2 stroke oils there are additional factors besides just lubrication-there's also deposit formation and how well the oils burn. In theory, you could have a poorly formulated synthetic oil and a well designed blend.

When it comes to four stroke oils I can rarely recall any tests where a generic version performed on par with the best of the name brands. Oil additives and premium base stock adds cost and reducing those levels helps turn additional profit.

Another factor to consider is that two stroke oils are not created equally and that they are typically optimized for one of three applications depending on engine temperatures and various other considerations. Running fancy synthetic boat 2 stroke oil in your saw is a bad idea for example.

1) Boat 2 stroke oil
2) Air cooled power equipment oil
3) Power sports (dirt bikes, motorcycles, 4wheeler)

Additionally, within the category above you should take into account that some oils are blended to perform best at a certain mix ratio. Going overly heavy with an oil formulated to burn best at 50:1 or 100:1 can be a bad idea. For example, I use a synthetic 2 stroke oil in my trail bike that is formulated for a 32:1 mix ratio and it burns off cleanly at that level.

I would advise using a premium 2 stroke oil that is intended for chainsaws and other handheld 2 stroke power equipment and mixing at the appropriate ratio. Knowledgeable people who tear down saws frequently and have large saw shops like Madsens seem to favor Stihl HP Ultra. Echo Red Armor is a newer oil that seems to have favorable feedback from users, but I haven't seen too much testing. Husqvarna HP+ is a blend and not pure synthetic so be aware of that.

Lastly, here's a link to a Youtube video where a gentleman does a nice demonstration of how various 2 stroke oils burn differently by using new cylinders and pistons with each oil:
 
CausticUC

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BradSt

BradSt

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If it is JASO FD/ISO-L-EGD certified, you're good to go. Chainsaws don't need anything fancy. They turn high RPM, but the piston speeds are still low, and so is the specific output. I quit spending $40/gallon on boutique oils over 10 years ago. Just loaded up on some for $10/gallon recently. It is a syn blend. I use it in everything 2 stroke, other than outboard motors. For those, I use the same brand but in TCW-III flavor.
 
Timber MacFallen

Timber MacFallen

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If it is JASO FD/ISO-L-EGD certified, you're good to go. Chainsaws don't need anything fancy. They turn high RPM, but the piston speeds are still low, and so is the specific output. I quit spending $40/gallon on boutique oils over 10 years ago. Just loaded up on some for $10/gallon recently. It is a syn blend. I use it in everything 2 stroke, other than outboard motors. For those, I use the same brand but in TCW-III flavor.
I wouldn't say the piston speeds are low...maybe moderate is a bit more accurate. A Ford 302 V8 spinning at 6,000 rpm with a 3.00" stroke has a piston speed of 3,000 feet per minute. A Husky 550xp spinning at 13,500 rpm with a 1.36" stroke has a piston speed of 3,060 feet per minute. For the metric folks here that's 15.5 meters per second.

Sure, it's not Ferrari or Formula 1 piston fast, but it's not slow either and demands a good layer of lubrication. These engines are air cooled and those rod bearings take a beating. A well formulated synthetic oil that burns cleanly and offers good film strength that can exceed the minimum certification specs.

A low speed piston engine would be a Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine. For example, a 3.5hp Briggs with a 1.75" stroke at 3600 rpm has a piston speed of 1,050 feet per minute. Now that's low.
 
Andyshine77

Andyshine77

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Just try this VPracing rated FD 100% Cost rounded up $7 per 16oz so say $14 a quart. Can buy anywhere it seems.

View attachment 869814
Does it have the JASO seal, or are they just claiming it meets the requirements? Not saying it's not good stuff I'm sure it's more than fine, but without the seal it hasn't actually been certified.

The seal look like this, an can only be used on oils that have actually been tested.


 
ray benson

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sean donato

sean donato

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For what it's worth, I run klotz super techniplate in everything. Figured it was good enough for the old mans race boat, and our old dirt bikes, and sleds, good enough for my saws. And well every other 2 stroke powered piece of equipment and toy I have.
 
czyhorse

czyhorse

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Just went and looked and my 2-cycle oil has no certifications or claims of grandeur whatsoever. So I guess I need to find some new 2-cycle oil. I had no idea! Which is why I posed the question.
 
RED-85-Z51

RED-85-Z51

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Just went and looked and my 2-cycle oil has no certifications or claims of grandeur whatsoever. So I guess I need to find some new 2-cycle oil. I had no idea! Which is why I posed the question.
What oil are you running?

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JeremiahJohnson

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Does it have the JASO seal, or are they just claiming it meets the requirements? Not saying it's not good stuff I'm sure it's more than fine, but without the seal it hasn't actually been certified.

The seal look like this, an can only be used on oils that have actually been tested.



Does it have the JASO seal, or are they just claiming it meets the requirements? Not saying it's not good stuff I'm sure it's more than fine, but without the seal it hasn't actually been certified.

The seal look like this, an can only be used on oils that have actually been tested.



:rolleyes:;)


vpFD.jpg
 
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