2 elm ID's American and Red

[272super]

Have a few more elm id's to verify. I've been cutting alot of the stuff lately and want to make sure I know what I'm looking at. The first 2 pics is of a Slippery (red) elm and the second is an American elm....I think. With the slippery elm,is the outer white ring a pretty common thing to look for? This wood splits pretty easy and has the cat pee smell. Reddish brown when split. Sounds like the red elm will be prime firewood.

The second set of 3 pics is American elm I believe. I would not even bother to ask-except it splits pretty easy by hand but it's been sitting in rounds for about 3 years. Maybe that's why. I've always heard it's very tough to split. It does have the bark with creamy white layers so I'm confident it's American elm. Any chance another wood type has the creamy white layers in the bark?

It's really great to now be able to look at a wood pile and know what I'm dealing with because of what I've learned on this board. Thanks

 

[Bowtie]

That first pic is red elm. Get as much of that as you can, and dont tell anyone. Hard to find anymore, and it is excellent firewood!

 

[Bowtie]

The other pics look like american elm, its not bad firewood, but not in the same sport as red elm. Do you have any pics of the red elm bark? I have some with some bark left I cut last weekend.

 

[Whitespider]

Yep, I do believe you've nailed it. Red Elm will often have the lighter colored outer ring, although not always so pronounced. Red Elm isn't too bad to split after it's had a bit of time to sit and dry, but you'll still probably find some rounds that will test your fortitude. I can't say I know for a fact that other trees do not have "creamy white" layers in the bark, but American Elm is the only native elm that does. Rock Elm will sometimes have lighter colored layers... lighter, not "creamy white"... more of a lighter brown or dark tan. Looking at your last picture explains why that American Elm is splitting easily... the wood fibers have started to deteriorate, or rot. Cutting standing-dead I find quite a bit of it in that same condition, just on the edge of going... which means some of the heating value has already been reclaimed by Mother Earth. Still quite usable though, I try to use elm in that condition as "daytime" wood, when BTU demand isn't as high (but my wife is home to keep the furnace fed)... burn it this year.

 

[3fordasho]

I don't know but the first two pics look alot like siberian elm to me. I've cut a bunch of it over the last year and the pics look the same as what I've cut. I know mine is siberian by the leaf size

 

[272super]

Thanks for the help. Here is a pic of the red elm bark. I did wonder if this cold be Siberian elm but it splits pretty easy green and does not seem as dark as Siberian.

 

[3fordasho]

Thanks for the help. Here is a pic of the red elm bark. I did wonder if this cold be Siberian elm but it splits pretty easy green and does not seem as dark as Siberian.

Still looks like siberian to me. Mine splits pretty easy green too. Maybe what I have is red elm? Nah the leaves are too small.
I really wish what I have was Red Elm, very preferable to Siberian. The only elm I have here that splits horrribly is American unless it's started to punk out abit.

 

[272super]

Are there any sure fire ways to separate Siberian from red elm? Ive read previous posts mostly from Whitespider via search about the difference between American and red. I've seen Siberian with the white outer ring too. Heard the Siberian is darker and a harder to split. This wood I have splits pretty clean by hand when green. I have noticed this wood does have the light brown colored layers in the bark,not creamy white like the American Elm. Red elm does have the layers. Does the Siberian Elm have colored layers in the bark?

It's raining today and looking at the cut ends, I noticed the area between the bark and wood has a thick slimey ring around that area. That should be the mucilage substance Slippery Elm is named for. Does Siberian Elm do this when wet? Pouring water on a cut end might be a simple way to test if in doubt.

 

[3fordasho]

I'm sure I'll be cutting some in the next couple days so I'll check it out. For me the best way is to check the leaves, Siberian leaves are 2"or less overall length, other elms (american & red) will be 2.8" or larger. I am pretty sure the elm I've been cutting (red or siberian?) has the slippery layer between the bark and wood. Many times that layer allows the bark to slip right off when splitting.
Maybe I have a hybrid between siberian and red, I think Whitespider mentioned this possibility.

Are there any sure fire ways to separate Siberian from red elm? Ive read previous posts mostly from Whitespider via search about the difference between American and red. I've seen Siberian with the white outer ring too. Heard the Siberian is darker and a harder to split. This wood I have splits pretty clean by hand when green. I have noticed this wood does have the light brown colored layers in the bark,not creamy white like the American Elm. Red elm does have the layers. Does the Siberian Elm have colored layers in the bark?

It's raining today and looking at the cut ends, I noticed the area between the bark and wood has a thick slimey ring around that area. That should be the mucilage substance Slippery Elm is named for. Does Siberian Elm do this when wet? Pouring water on a cut end might be a simple way to test if in doubt.

 

[xraydaniel]

Some links

http://www.arboristsite.com/wood-carving-turning/185660.htm

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/185406.htm

These links above were some I just posted recently. The first has the pic of a piece I flat cut with the saw through the middle and the second link has black locust as compared to siberian elm. Red elm (slippery elm) just doesn't come near the darkness of the siberian heartwood. Aslo the bark of the siberian is slightly more furrowed as black locust is. Hence the reason I was confused when I cut the siberian to find it much darker than the locust. Yes Siberian elm does have the slimy mucous leeching out of the bark while green. It was the toughest wood I've ever split green and I've split green american elm before as well as green cottonwood. Both were difficult but not compared to the Siberian. It's a pretty wood but from what I've heard it's not worth the trouble unless it's free and that's debatable.

 

[greendohn]

I may be way off base, but doesn't the rounds in the pictures look a lot like walnut?? I've cut very little elm over the years as it's hard to come by in the places I cut..:msp_unsure:

 

[no tree to big]

I may be way off base, but doesn't the rounds in the pictures look a lot like walnut?? I've cut very little elm over the years as it's hard to come by in the places I cut..:msp_unsure:

I think you need to lay off that moonshine jug its messin with your eyes

 

[3fordasho]

I think this is siberian elm, but seen alot of posts here calling it red elm. Pics taken about a hour after bucking, minutes after splitting.
Was getting dark so had to use the flash. Flash washes out the coloring of the bark abit. Wood will loose a lot of color after a few days of drying. I add pics of it after a few days of drying. Splits about the same as green ash.


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[xraydaniel]

Hmmmm . . tough call but I'm gonna call that red elm aka slippery. Does it smell like bandaids? After drying for about a week it should be brown not red with significant creamy colored sapwood if Siberian. It just doesn't seem stringy enough for Siberian. I'm not a weakling by any stretch and if it splits easy then it not Siberian. I'm beginning to think some hybrids have been spawned from different elm species.

 

[Whitespider]

I'm beginning to think some hybrids have been spawned from different elm species.

It is well known and documented that Red Elm and Siberian Elm will readily hybridize naturally, or "in-the-wild"... but don't even ask me how to identify a hybrid, 'cause I would have no clue.

Yeah, those pictures, taken with flash, sort of "change" things visually so I wouldn't be 100% positive making "the call" from them. But I will say those pics don't look quite right for Red Elm... and there's some layering in the bark that just ain't right for Red Elm either...

 

[greendohn]

AHHHHhhh ,, it aint the moon shine , it's me peepers LOL,,and lack off experience, also,,the later pics posted are much more better,,looks like some quality fire wood...I'm almost embarrassed: with my earlier post..I've cut a lot of walnut tops over the years,,very rarely see any elm in the places I cut..thanks for the clue,,The "edumication" I get on here is what keeps me coming back..that and I'm a natural born voyeur..

 

[Ash_403]

Also, Black Walnut will have a bit thicker sapwood in the cross-section, compared to the Red Elm (or is it Siberian?) in the first few pictures posted. (Can't smell a picture though. Probably a good thing in some cases.)

 

[xraydaniel]

Completely agree with you on that. According to Audobaun's guide only the Slippery elm is stated to have the mucilaginous inner bark. One thing I wonder is the difference in smell. The Elm I have has a "bandaid" smell that slightly faint but very distinguishable I'm happy to know that much I guess =) Happy T-giving everyone!

 

[272super]

I was the original poster. Keep in mind the later pics are of a different tree from 3fordasho. The later tree does look lot more gold and darker than mine. Also the color changes in the center. One question I would like to ask 3fordasho is if his tree will produce a thick gel between the bark and the heartwood when saturated with water. Slippery elm does this,maybe Siberian does too,not sure,but would be good to know.

 

[3fordasho]

Red or Siberian Elm?

I think most will identify these pics as red elm. Yes? No?



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