50:1 mix makes a mess

[LeLynn]

Hello again everyone, just thought I'd update this thread in case anyone wondered how things worked out. So I have continued running 50:1 mix of Amsoil saber and premium unleaded pump gas. After getting a few large logs to cut while tuning the Carb it seems as if the combination of a new saw (not broken in) coupled with a Carb set on the rich side must caused the smoke /oily exhaust mess I complained about. Now that I have adjusted the Carb under load and run 15 or so tanks of fuel through the saw, the oily mess is quite manageable. I still wish Stihl would have made the grill around the muffler exit port easier to clean, but I'm otherwise quite happy with the saw. Thank you to all those who offered your suggestions, I appreciate it.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

In low load environments - hedge cutters, leaf blowers and strimmers, I don’t run Saber at 40:1 as it spits oil out the muffler. It’s a more concentrated oil than others. This is why it’s sold as 80:1 - 100:1 oil.

In a chainsaw it’s different. There is more load, the engine works harder, but still in my experience 40:1 is too much unless you get the engine good and hot and cut a decent amount.

Here is an example top picture is 40:1 Saber in a leaf blower for 10 mins full throttle - gummy / sticky mess, bottom picture. I didn’t clean it, just changed the fuel and ran another 10 mins this time on 32:1 castrol activ 2t and it is dry and has started to actually remove the “gummy-ness” in areas.

I’m convinced Amsoil Saber at 80:1 is like running other oils at 50:1 and thus running Saber at 40:1 is like other oils at 25:1. The best thing about Saber at 40:1 is the amazing smell.

 

[Lawless]

I run Red Armor at 32:1 with no splooge and no “fumes”. Overkill maybe but plugs/mufflers are clean and they’ll outlast me.

I got the 4 gallon deal posted here a few months back

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I think we sometimes forget, mix ratio is oil specific and not a constant across the board. Mixing 32:1 of a thick oil designed for thinner ratios is not the same as running 32:1 of a more traditional type of 2 stroke oil. It doesn’t offer benefits, only drawbacks - spooge, increased expense and fouling of plugs. As above, I’m convinced Saber at 80:1 is the same as a normal mix oil at 50:1

 

[huskihl]

I think we sometimes forget, mix ratio is oil specific and not a constant across the board. Mixing 32:1 of a thick oil designed for thinner ratios is not the same as running 32:1 of a more traditional type of 2 stroke oil. It doesn’t offer benefits, only drawbacks - spooge, increased expense and fouling of plugs. As above, I’m convinced Saber at 80:1 is the same as a normal mix oil at 50:1

Lotta truth to that. Belray H1r, red armor, Motul 800… all known for having higher viscosities. They coat better and leave more residual oil for the bottom end at 50:1 than most normal or recommended O P E oils at 32:1.

 

[wildwes]

Lotta truth to that. Belray H1r, red armor, Motul 800… all known for having higher viscosities. They coat better and leave more residual oil for the bottom end at 50:1 than most normal or recommended O P E oils at 32:1.

So would you personally run Red Armor at 50:1 instead of 32:1? Or something in between?

 

[huskihl]

So would you personally run Red Armor at 50:1 instead of 32:1? Or something in between?

I use Dominator @ 32:1 for cleanliness and also availability. It takes that much of it for me to feel satisfied looking down into the crankcase and bearings for residual oil. And I can get it at the Yamaha shop in town. All the others I would have to order or drive an hour to find and even then the others are considerably more expensive. Those I mentioned I would still run at 40:1 for the added detergency.

 

[Dennisthemenace]

Hello everyone. Been looking around for a while but just joined up. I'll apologize ahead of time for the long first post. Ok, so I purchased my first "real" chainsaw (had a ryobi gas and a craftsman electric in the past). I decided on a Stihl 193t. I know some people will say it's not for ground use but that's not the point of this post. So after purchasing the saw and running it lightly on the tank of fuel the dealer filled the saw with, I mixed a gallon of fuel at 50:1 using echo oil. the saw runs great but it really makes an oily mess of the side cover. I have to remove it and clean it inside and out after each use (a use for me is usually less than half an hour). I figured maybe it was just the echo oil that makes a mess so after that gallon of fuel I switched up Amsoil saber also mixed at 50:1. It seems to be just as messy if not slightly more so. Am I missing something? Stihl made the little holes in the plastic so hard to clean it would seem that maybe my issue is semi unique (people don't deal with this mess daily do they?). Is Amsoil saber really that messy when mixed at 50:1? I've considered running it mixed at 80:1 (Amsoils most oil Rich "saber ratio") just to see if it helps but don't want to worry about hurting the engine or reducing its lifespan. I purchased this saw simply because I had hoped that it would last many years, (my ryobi lasted 6 years before it was stolen) so I'd hate to lessen its life simply to reduce the mess but damn Stihl didn't make the saw easy to clean . Is 80:1 safe? can my saw really be that far out of Tune? (it has the factory limiter caps on the Carb screws and since it has a rev limiter on the coil it's hard to tell if it's tuned properly. I'm at sea level (10 feet above) and have the high speed needle about half way between the stops) ANY HELP would be greatly appreciated.

You are mistaking bar/chain oil for mix oil. It is supposed to make a mess. If it doesn't something is wrong. Chainsaws when used, are a tool that gets plenty of gunk quick. That's normal. Just mix your fuel at 50 :1 and push on.

 

[Dennisthemenace]

You are mistaking bar/chain oil for mix oil. It is supposed to make a mess. If it doesn't something is wrong. Chainsaws when used, are a tool that gets plenty of gunk quick. That's normal. Just mix your fuel at 50 :1 and push on.

Jeez, I didn't realise this was such an old and silly thread, there goes a couple of minutes of my life I'll never get back

 

[sean donato]

Jeez, I didn't realise this was such an old and silly thread, there goes a couple of minutes of my life I'll never get back

Yep, good old Tom can resurrect just Bout any dead thread lol.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Yep, good old Tom can resurrect just Bout any dead thread lol.

I didn’t even realise it was old until Dennis mentioned it! Hah.

Just dug this up too, Saber at 100:1. Tuning obviously plays a big role in this, but…

Pretty sure Andyshine is a member here too?

 

[sean donato]

I didn’t even realise it was old until Dennis mentioned it! Hah.

Just dug this up too, Saber at 100:1. Tuning obviously plays a big role in this, but…

Pretty sure Andyshine is a member here too?

View attachment 1098702

Sorry Tom, I had to get a bit of a dig in ya, lol. Definatly not the longest thread resurrection we've seen.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Sorry Tom, I had to get a bit of a dig in ya, lol. Definatly not the longest thread resurrection we've seen.

Not at all I was laughing when I read your post lol it’s all good!

 

[OM617YOTA]

I didn’t even realise it was old until Dennis mentioned it! Hah.

Just dug this up too, Saber at 100:1. Tuning obviously plays a big role in this, but…

Pretty sure Andyshine is a member here too?

View attachment 1098702

I don't understand people who play lubrication roulette. Do they drain oil out of the crankcase of their four stroke engines too, and see how close they can get to running their engines without oil? Even the very best of oils don't do a thing if there's not any oil being run.

Oil is cheap, saws are expensive, run good oil and plenty of it.

 

[Brushpile]

So would you personally run Red Armor at 50:1 instead of 32:1? Or something in between?

I don't run.my saw Echo VS 400 modded, (learned how to here) for a living but I do make a bit of monies on the side with it, and my wife runs the echo 225 weedeater on 6 yards a week for years and all I've used since 2015 is the Echo Red Armor. Same machines since then, and never a bit of trouble. Run like a champ and fire up on first or second pull everytime. 100% gas 93 octane. Never had homeowner grade tools last this long and I swear it's gotta be the brand, the oil, and the non ethanol gas.

 

[GeorgiaVol]

Non ethanol gas definitely makes a difference.
I too run an Echo SRM225 and have for a decade. Never had issues till I ran regular 89 octane mix in it one summer. Gummed up the carb over the winter. Went back to e-free and back to no issues.
Ethanol is a 2 stroke killer.

 

[bwalker]

I don't understand people who play lubrication roulette. Do they drain oil out of the crankcase of their four stroke engines too, and see how close they can get to running their engines without oil? Even the very best of oils don't do a thing if there's not any oil being run.

Oil is cheap, saws are expensive, run good oil and plenty of it.

I've never got that mentality either..

 

[thenne1713]

You are mistaking bar/chain oil for mix oil. It is supposed to make a mess. If it doesn't something is wrong. Chainsaws when used, are a tool that gets plenty of gunk quick. That's normal. Just mix your fuel at 50 :1 and push on.

AND KEEP THE CHAIN OIL TANK FULL

 

[North by Northwest]

In low load environments - hedge cutters, leaf blowers and strimmers, I don’t run Saber at 40:1 as it spits oil out the muffler. It’s a more concentrated oil than others. This is why it’s sold as 80:1 - 100:1 oil.

In a chainsaw it’s different. There is more load, the engine works harder, but still in my experience 40:1 is too much unless you get the engine good and hot and cut a decent amount.

Here is an example top picture is 40:1 Saber in a leaf blower for 10 mins full throttle - gummy / sticky mess, bottom picture. I didn’t clean it, just changed the fuel and ran another 10 mins this time on 32:1 castrol activ 2t and it is dry and has started to actually remove the “gummy-ness” in areas.

I’m convinced Amsoil Saber at 80:1 is like running other oils at 50:1 and thus running Saber at 40:1 is like other oils at 25:1. The best thing about Saber at 40:1 is the amazing smell.

View attachment 1098181

Saber is specifically recommended to be mixed no richer than 50:1 . I have run it leaner , but not at 80:1 in any quality saw . Its a quality oil . I more recently run Interceptor & Dominator in my commercial saws . Red Armor has tested very well also in more than one 2 stroke engine testing application from 40:1 to 50:1 ratio's !

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I’m curious how much residual is in the engine at 80:1 with a good tune with Saber. Not sharp, but not rich either. I think it will be similar to a regular oil at 50:1 - very little. You aren’t leaving much on the plate for hot days, dull chains, aging diaphragms, slight air leaks, partially blocked fuel filters etc, but when everything is right you can get by for low load OPE. I don’t consider a saw low load either.

No one in their right mind would mill with 50:1 regular 2t oil and shouldn’t with 80:1 Saber; It’s a recipe for disaster.

The thing I like most about Saber is the smell, I have yet to find anything I like more.

Edited to correct spelling mistakes.