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661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

Discussion in 'Chainsaw' started by redbull660, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. Big_Wood

    Big_Wood westcoast dweller

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    ran 18L of lucas 40:1 through 2 different saws today. one me and the other another guy i subbed too. both the saws still run lol
     
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  2. Termite

    Termite Time To Launch

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  3. bwalker

    bwalker Resident Hack Sawbuilder Exposer

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  4. gmcman

    gmcman ArboristSite Operative

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    Forgive me if I missed a reply that covered this, I have followed this thread for awhile then broke off but have tried to view all the pages.

    As far as the timed cuts with different oil ratios, are the mixture screws being adjusted, any carb compensation for the added oil? AFAIK, when you add more oil doesn't this lean out the saw? Wouldn't this result in a hotter saw and less power?

    Again, I'm not sure on this but curious as to the fundamentals of changing the oil mixture in regards to how this leans or richens the fuel mixture.
     
  5. gunnusmc03

    gunnusmc03 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    It's an mtronic saw with computer controlled carb. The saw adjusts on its own as needed to reach the proper rpm.
     
  6. bwalker

    bwalker Resident Hack Sawbuilder Exposer

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    And I believe he is resetting after each test.
     
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  7. Termite

    Termite Time To Launch

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    Oh, I have read almost this whole thread but my instant and total recall is not what it once was.:D
     
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  8. Termite

    Termite Time To Launch

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    I made an inquiry to Bel-Ray about their 2t mineral oil. This is their response.

    Brian,

    The Bel-Ray 2T Mineral Engine Oil uses a combination of group II and group I base oils for its base fluid. If you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask.



    With regards,

    Sir Tech

    I was expecting group II and group III.
     
  9. Robin Wood

    Robin Wood Go hard or go home

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    Taken from Tanaka FAQ, interesting read

    Q. How can Tanaka Perfect Mix accommodate my other brands of power equipment that require a different ratio than 50:1?
    A. Oil is a blend of components. The bulk of it is a base stock, which is oil, but it's primary purpose is not to lubricate, but rather to blend with, and carry additives that provide specific functions. The most important additive is the one that provides the lubricity. Some people refer to this additive as "bright-stock". The base oil also can blend with and carry other additives designed to accomplish different things. For example, quality oils have an additive that helps maintain the integrity of the gasoline should it be stored as mixed fuel for extended periods. Another additive may help reduce exhaust smoke.

    Oil took on a marketing theme many years ago. A company who made brand A product also sells oil. How do they protect their oil business and prevent customers from buying the competitors oil? Let's say for the sake of argument that an oil blend requires X amount of the lubricity additive to adequately run an engine. The manufacturer would then formulate an oil blend with the amount of additives to reach that level when mixed at the odd ratio they prescribe for their product. As you've seen, there are 16:1, 25:1, 32:1, 40:1 42:1, 50:1, etc. However, if you analyzed these oils, you'd find very similar amounts of the actual ingredients needed to provide the life allowing lubricity (even at these odd ratios). This has been a very effective way of convincing a customer who bought a unit requiring two cycle oil to buy their brand of oil. Who wants to take a chance on a $500 machine?? If it says 42:1, the customer assumes he needs to seek out a 42:1 oil.

    Tanaka Perfect Mix is what's referred to as a one-mix oil. The oil is formulated so that when mixed at 50:1, or 2.6 ounces per gallon of fuel, it contains enough of the life-giving additives to work in any of these engines. Additionally, it goes a long way in simplifying the mixing of the oil with the self measuring bottle. There are other one-mix types of oil that mix at a ratio of 100:1. Most people would look at that and think that there simply isn't enough oil to allow the engine to survive, but again, it's not the amount of base stock that is the important issue. It's what is contained within the blend. Their blend has higher percentage of the additive than does an oil that mixes at 25:1.
     
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  10. Andyshine77

    Andyshine77 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    This is not really how it works, the math done not work like that. What you read was marketing nothing more.
     
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  11. porsche965

    porsche965 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Truth lies in engine failures. Everything else is speculation. And not one here and one there, or a picture or two.

    For all the hundred of thousands of successful running two strokes used daily 1 or 2 past pics or failures don't make a trend. And could have come from other dynamics of the engine and maintenance, not the oil.
     
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  12. Khntr85

    Khntr85 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Wow a lot of work you have went threw on these test, thanks for making this info avalible to everyone!!!

    I know this is totally off topic, but since you have your hug off quite a lot what kind is sealer do you use.... Not trying to start a debate just asking OP personally.... Agian thanks for all the work you have done!!!!
     
  13. CR888

    CR888 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I don't have the time to read the 438 pages of this thread and need to know what ratio to run in my new saw.....so is it 32:1, 40:1 or 50:1? The answer must be in the thread somewhere, thanks.
     
  14. Robin Wood

    Robin Wood Go hard or go home

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    be ready to get bombarded by the rest of the posters lol
     
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  15. Miles86

    Miles86 ArboristSite Operative

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    I've been using 20:1 fuel - oil mix for many years. The tanaka article is good information, but does not address hydrodynamic lubrication mode versus boundry lubrication mode.
    For long engine life the routine operation should be in hydrodynamic (full film) mode, so you need a certain amount of oil volume to achieve this layer of separation.
    I like a high TBN 2 cycle oil, most "factory" oils are a TBN around 2.o . I like the marine PWC oils which are a low ash but contain additional calcium or magnesium sulfonate detergent-dispersant. The TBN is about 5.0 to 6.0. TCW-3 oils are even higher in TBN, around 9-10, due to the constant threat from the water environment.

    http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28766/what-is-lubrication
    http://pqiamerica.com/TBN.htm
     
  16. Michigan Escapee

    Michigan Escapee ArboristSite Operative

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    I've got about a quart of 40:1 bottle gas left over, and a few small jobs. Gonna live on the wild side and run it in my Husq 445, instead of the usual 50:1. :D
     
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  17. redbull660

    redbull660 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Previously I had been running 32:1 HP2 in this saw. The piston top looked pretty wet.

    I decided to back down a little to 36:1 hp2. So after about 1.5 gallons at 36:1 ....


     
  18. redbull660

    redbull660 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    muff modded 661 - 7 tanks of schaeffers 32:1 (ran from day one only on schaeffers 32:1)


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. redbull660

    redbull660 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    661 with new piston & jug. 3 gallons of amsoil saber 32:1 through it so far. don't really care for the discoloration on the front of the pistion skirt. I saw a little of that with Si-7. Didn't see it with honda hp2, mobil 1, or schaeffers.

     

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  20. redbull660

    redbull660 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Tree Monkey is always telling me how well Schaeffers cleans things up. So after 3 gallons of amsoil mix, the top of the jug was fairly dirty. I decided to run 2 tanks only of schaeffers and test what he has been telling me. I'd say that looks pretty clean?
     

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