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'87 Chevy, Need Some GM masterminds!

Discussion in 'Reader's Rides' started by axlr8, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. axlr8

    axlr8 ArboristSite Guru

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    Okay guys, here she blows. My older brother is freshly sent to the National guard. He left behind his truck, and he likes it. So, I wanna make him love it. It is a 1987 Chevrolet R10, Custom Deluxe. It has the Chevy 350 TBI, and a 700R4 trans. (If im not mistaken??!) it is a fleetside, and had dual tanks, we removed both and only replaced the right side. I may install the second if I can find the money, brackets, and time.

    Heres the deal. Im looking to put headers, a mild cam, some chrome, a full tube dual exhaust, and maybe electronic cutouts on it. If I can get the engine and trans all sorted out, I will then look into interior, and then finally onto the exterior (bigg task...)

    SO that being said, who has experience with the Summit Racing Headers??? I am planning on running fel pro gaskets, and throwing the ones included, but. How are they as in durability, and I will have them coated...



    EDIT: I forgot the link! :( http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G9006/?rtype=10


    And ill get some pics up of her!

    Anyone with tips on how to spruce up the 350 TBI, please chime in. I want mild, not hot! And if there is someone who knows transmissions here. I need to PM you!!!
     
  2. Naked Arborist

    Naked Arborist Hack from way back.

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    GM mastermind here. At-least I used to be when this garbage came along lol.

    Build a torque motor forget all that HP stuff. You want to drive it on pump gas right? Right!
    Dump the exhaust air injection system.
    Dump the flame arrester inside the air filter box.
    Forget the headers they always leak and are just not worth the trouble. Port match a set of ram horn exhaust manifolds or just use stock E-bar type, ported at the dumps to take a bigger doughnut. They actually outflow a small Corvette ram horn. Not the big one.
    Mandrel bent exhaust pipes are a must!
    Use a dual pattern cam and keep the lift down. Too much lift causes too many problems in the valve tran and tons of wear on the valve guides.
    Keep the exhaust at 2.5" pipes and buy a set of flow master mufflers or a cat back system.
    Do yourself a favor and buy hi flow 2.5" or 3" cats, you get what you pay for there.
    The trans does not need much, a shift kit in the valve body to run a full auto set up is all you need.
    Bigger air intake throttle body will be in order after the other mods are done. IMO I would not bother with a 2 port update. The air flow is minimal through a stock intake manifold.

    This is about as far as you can go with a stock block (pistons+rods) and the sickening stock GM heads. The TB motors are turds in that department.

    Good Luck
     
  3. k5alive

    k5alive ArboristSite Guru

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    he pretty much nailed it. its a truck not a race car. Is it 4x4?
    I would add a high volume oil pump not high psi.
    roller rockers are nice and inexpensive.
    the electric exhaust cutouts are over rated and are prone to f**k up. go with the ones that are cable op.
     
  4. axlr8

    axlr8 ArboristSite Guru

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    Dump the exhaust air injection system.

    such as? the preheat tube thing mabob??! I took that off day one! :)

    Dump the flame arrester inside the air filter box.

    Ill get on that! I believe what your saying is the plate just behind the air cleaner inlet???

    Forget the headers they always leak and are just not worth the trouble. Port match a set of ram horn exhaust manifolds or just use stock E-bar type, ported at the dumps to take a bigger doughnut. They actually outflow a small Corvette ram horn. Not the big one.

    Okay heres where im getting lost, ram horns....Explain??! I know the porting, and donut deal, but I dont understand the ram horn?

    Mandrel bent exhaust pipes are a must!

    Looking into a reputable exhaust shop to do cats and back...

    Use a dual pattern cam and keep the lift down. Too much lift causes too many problems in the valve tran and tons of wear on the valve guides.

    Okay, Im new to the cam procedure, I have cammed many a small 4 stroke, but no v8s yet!!!
    Any specific brand you may prefer??! how about specs? The truck will mostly be a hot driver. Maybe once in a while a load? Not too heavy though, He is a throttle smasher though!

    Keep the exhaust at 2.5" pipes and buy a set of flow master mufflers or a cat back system.

    2.5 inch dual exhaust with turbo mufflers and or the flowmasters!

    Do yourself a favor and buy hi flow 2.5" or 3" cats, you get what you pay for there.

    will doo!

    The trans does not need much, a shift kit in the valve body to run a full auto set up is all you need.

    Trans needs some help!!! It will idle PERFECT in neutral and park, but drop it in any Gear, and the dang thing tends to stall out if no throttle is applied!
    ideas?!

    Bigger air intake throttle body will be in order after the other mods are done. IMO I would not bother with a 2 port update. The air flow is minimal through a stock intake manifold.

    So your suggesting a new higher flowing intake, and throttle body? Edelbrock???



    K5 Alive, you have a high flowing, low PSI pump in mind??? I will be probably getting a new pump anyhow!
     
  5. Walt41

    Walt41 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Call Summits tech line and they will set you up with dyno proven and matched components that will work together and not break the bank, just tell them what type of budget you have.
     
  6. axlr8

    axlr8 ArboristSite Guru

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    ill give that a try, and then post my results up here! Like said above, I am actually looking for higher torque, I like the grunt, not the scream. So Ill ask them! When I do these internal changes, what do you guys wanna see? Pull the motor and trans and go through them both? Or tear down the motor, and clean it up while its all stripped down? I dont have any engine stands at the moment, but I plan on getting one. Is it smart to get the one that bolts to the motor, that rotates? I plan to run it on the stand anyways! (not too long though.

    Im still in the works with this deal :)
     
  7. samdweezel05

    samdweezel05 ArboristSite Guru

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    There are a thousand ways to do what you want. First thing to remember is that big fat long tube headers don't produce low end torque. This is a truck, not a dragster. If you want low end you need to be looking into some short tube, equal length headers. If the parts you buy don't work together, your pissing in the wind. Same with high rise intakes. They don't do low end, there for making power in higher RPM's.
     
  8. axlr8

    axlr8 ArboristSite Guru

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    I cannot seem to get through to the summit tech center. Any more parts suggestions and helpful hints guys??! I need them!!!
    :blob2:
     
  9. axlr8

    axlr8 ArboristSite Guru

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    bumpittyy!
     
  10. Walt41

    Walt41 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    If you call the toll free # during business hours there is an option for tech assistance
     
  11. Naked Arborist

    Naked Arborist Hack from way back.

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    Well first off, don't even think about running it on a high mount rotating engine stand. Bad move and you may get hurt when the motor flips over from torque.
    Go do your home work and study up on good sound engine combinations before starting this project!
    Young guns always want to dive right in with out a true well thought out plan. Been there done that it never works out. I did not realize you wanted to pull the motor and tear it down. If that is the case just dump the heads and get new ones. A better idea would be to dump the whole motor and replace it with a good GM combination already put together. It cost more money to build a sound motor than to buy one been there done that. The only way to save money on a build is to know what you need, where to get it at a true discount and what needs to be inspected and machined before the build starts.



    1 What is your budget?
    2 this is not a lawnmower you need the right tools and some skills here
    3 the motor will only support so much power before the bottom end completely fails
    4 Oh one last thing, please give us a break down of the tools and measuring equipment that you have on hand now to perform all the necessary tasks you have set out to accomplish on this build.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  12. treemandan

    treemandan Tree Freak

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    Pour some gumout in the tank, wash and wax it, vaccum the inside real good, maybe a new seat cover and yer good to go.
     
  13. Fedaburger

    Fedaburger ArboristSite Operative

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    I'm with Dan keep it simple fix what needs fixed. How many miles on the engine? At the most if it needs freshend up a valve job does wonders for an old 350.
     
  14. axlr8

    axlr8 ArboristSite Guru

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    Budget, Its slim. But that is not a problem. I can get the money If I need it. EVEN if It means i have to sell some stuff.

    I know it isnt a lawnmower. I worked on them all summer, and got laid off. Sometimes they are as big of a ##### as anything can be.

    I understand on the lower end... I have snapped a few 2 stroke sled cranks. I learned. And then I upgraded to a remachined crank, and had it fully professionally balanced, welded, and trued.

    And the tools shouldnt be a problem. I dont own all the 'Specialtly tools...." but who does? I have a load of tools. If I cant accomplish it, I will buy it. I am trying to get INTO this hobby (engines/v8s) just like I got into sleds, saws, and everything 2 stroke..
    If i need machining done.. heck. Ill have it done.
     
  15. one.man.band

    one.man.band ArboristSite Guru

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    remembering my '88 gmc sierra...350 TBI

    sounds like a fun project, and your brother will love it!

    thoughts:
    stock TBI manifold is very sad. in my opinion, the stick in the mud of the motor.
    remember that edelbrock used to make a better flowing one for a stock throttle body.

    remember that my '90 caprice police 350 TBI model had a larger throttle body, maybe 1/8" or so on each opening. manifold looked similar to the one on my '88 truck.

    could you convert over to use a carb and related carb manifold if possible?

    rear end gear change might also help move things along if you are moving things higher in the motor rpm range.

    fan clutch: might want to rid yourself of that mess.

    luck
    -omb
     
  16. Patrick62

    Patrick62 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    My two cents worth

    I have to kinda agree with the last post. If you could set it up on a carburetor, you might be miles ahead of the TBI.

    Headers? Go for it, part of the magic of headers isn't what they actually do, or not do. It is the fact that they are there. Do a dual exhaust and there ya go, the traditional american rumble from the pipes. Use good gaskets, and torque the bolts evenly and you won't have leakage problems IF the headers actually have flat flanges.

    High torque RV cams are the way to go. They work pretty good, I got a couple of them running around here. Nice part is that they work with stock valves and springs. One of the nice things about a 350 is that the parts are cheap. A basic rebuild can be done for only a few hundred in parts.

    Q-jet, torque cam, and free exhaust and the thing will really suprise ya.
     
  17. axlr8

    axlr8 ArboristSite Guru

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    Okay here is some more Ideas.. I will probably be doing a box, and front clip off build. I am not willing to pull the cab at this time... im interested in the whole dual exhaust, and RV cam. I have a 318 with a RV cam and a 727 torqueflite behind it. Its just sitting...

    So the carb, and intake should be doable! I may have to switch some linkages and ditch some electronics... Not a big deal. you guys are suggesting the factory manifolds??? I could probably get a dual exhaust setup off of those? (mandrel bent, 2.5 inch pipe???)

    And im contemplating switching the heads for some Vortec's.... Im open to any offers, and ideas!!! Thanks guys!!!
     
  18. one.man.band

    one.man.band ArboristSite Guru

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    some things to consider to stay within your budget: (before you start buying parts).

    suggest at least doing a leak-down test to see if valves or rings are in need of service.

    suggest to call a reputable machine shop in your area for a price on a valve job and/or re-ring. replacing a cam without one is a crap-shoot. any benefit from a cam change could be lost if valves or rings are not sealing properly. torque cams build lots of cylinder pressure.

    trans: yours sound soft. maybe a torque converter issue. suggest bringing vehicle to a reputable trans shop. they could pressure check it and give you a good indication of it's condition, before more power is added.

    $$ so far:
    cam
    lifters (a must)
    valve job
    timing set (chain or gears)
    carb?
    manifold?
    headers
    pipes muffler(s)
    gaskets
    trans work
    possible torque converter
    linkage
    add $$ if you have to hone and re-ring

    would guess that you would easily be in for $1500 to $2000 already.

    good luck
    -omb
     
  19. axlr8

    axlr8 ArboristSite Guru

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    I will try to see what comes of my parts search guys.. I want to do it up right, and I think he enjoys the TBI... But, that leaves a narrow margin of what cam, and performace deals I can do to the engine.. It only flows so much...

    Thanks for all the help so far! and any more info I can get on the trans Issue would be great! That seems to be our biggest problem at the moment!!!

    Nich
     
  20. eric_271

    eric_271 Tree Freak

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    EQ heads are the way to go and can be had on eBay for dirt cheap. I almost went with their vortec head but ended up going with their 180cc hi performance head which makes as much Tq and more hp. These heads are cast thicker and are not crack pron like the factory heads. Do as search on son of sledghammer.
     

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