A Poulan and a Pickup

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Woodcutteranon

I stack wood on top of wood
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It seems the more I drive around town these days I notice more and more people with their own firewood operation set up in their back yard. Times are so bad a working man has to do anything to make ends meet. Just about every abled bodied man out there with a Poulan and a pickup are in the firewood business.

I don't know how that affects people like us, those who make a living with firewood, wholesaling, delivery, campsite sales, those who heat their houses with wood...but it can't be good. I don't know...I thought a recession would be good for the firewood business but it seems the economy has created more competition
 
Things were like that in canada a couple of years ago. The price of blocked and split hardwood went from $175-185 a cord to 90-100 overnight.
Everybody who could lift a saw was selling firewood. Most of the guys I talked to weren't that worried, they said they lost a few customers but nothing too serious.
Their attitude was that the fly by nighters would be gone the next year, and they were right for the most part.

Firewood customers seem to be very loyal if you sell a good product. We have harsh winters, and you don't want to find out half your wood is rotten in the middle of january.

A guy up the road sells around 2000 cord a year, he has a huge processor with a john deere engine and a 60'' blade. His wood is anywhere from $15-35 cord more than anyone else, and he can't keep up with the orders.

:cheers:
 
It's the same in most any other non regulated industry. Firewood, scrap, lawncare, etc. A man has to feed his family, and will do what it takes to get the job done. Often times competition is good as it forces you to find ways to refine and better your business.
 
I find its a lot of hacks selling green firewood.... whenever I hear a customer complain about their previously delivered "cord" of wood not burning, Ill ask them if they paid about $200 for it, and then there is a somewhat lost look on their face until they mention they they got it for $150 haha

I tell them I sell split green cords of wood too for $150, im just not a dirtbag and dont call them seasoned.

You get what you pay for
 
It is like MNGuns mentioned about the other industries - for instance lawncare.

I belong to another website - Lawn Care - and there are guys from all over the country who are members. I hear them mentioning just about the same thing about pickups and push mowers.

Seems the scabs cut prices - do poor work and when the heat begins they begin to disappear. It will be the same with the scab firewood sellers when they run out of places to cut or can't find free stuff stacked somewhere.

Nosmo
 
I also think that a lot of those guys are trying to beat the higher prices of heat oil or gas. I have been selling wood for the last 12 years or so but have never really wanted to go big with it. Cash is cash in the pocket.:cheers:
 
The weekend warriors around here had a big impact on us regulars, but only for a short time.Last winter sales were only half of what they normally where in November and the first part of December, then they took off and beat the previous years.Biggest reason?Two fold really.One, they ran out of wood quick.And the second?Bad product!Most of the folks that had bought from these guys were so disgusted they came running back to the established wood cutters.
I had considered dropping my prices to at least match what the scabs were selling it for, but just couldnt bring myself to do it.Glad I didnt.Once january hit,it was all I could do to keep up with my regular deliveres on top of the phone calls i was receiving.Another thing that really held up the part time guys was the weather.Once the snow started and the bad weather set in,most of them were not geared to making deliveries in the bad weather.Or just didnt want to.
 
It is like MNGuns mentioned about the other industries - for instance lawncare.

I belong to another website - Lawn Care - and there are guys from all over the country who are members. I hear them mentioning just about the same thing about pickups and push mowers.

Seems the scabs cut prices - do poor work and when the heat begins they begin to disappear. It will be the same with the scab firewood sellers when they run out of places to cut or can't find free stuff stacked somewhere.

Nosmo

So what, in your learned opinion, constitutes a "scab firewood seller?"
 
So what, in your learned opinion, constitutes a "scab firewood seller?"


I dont know who you were directing your question to,but I will tell you what my definition of a scab firewood seller is.

A guy with a toyota pickup loaded to an even bed with fresh green red oak selling on the street corner with a big sign, "Seasoned Oak,half a cord $75"
 
I dont know who you were directing your question to,but I will tell you what my definition of a scab firewood seller is.

A guy with a toyota pickup loaded to an even bed with fresh green red oak selling on the street corner with a big sign, "Seasoned Oak,half a cord $75"

I'd call that trolling for a sucker, not a scab. By the way.....I drive a toyota pickup.:cheers:
 
"A guy with a toyota pickup loaded to an even bed with fresh green red oak selling on the street corner with a big sign, "Seasoned Oak,half a cord $75""
I see. As a 35 year set up welder in the Milwaukee area, "scab" has another meaning. I'm laid off right now, so I live in my summer cabin in a tourist area, rural, and I burn wood. I cut and split and stacked 6 cord a year ago, and 6 cord this spring. I'll sell some, but mostly I needed the work, split it all by hand.
So, next question, what do you call the people who tie 1 square foot bundles with twine and sell them for $5? Up here its six pieces of wood, not kiln dried, but there is a statewide ban on moving wood, so tourists are screwed. I was selling a quarter face cord of 16" hardwood for $20( Be equal to eight bundles -2'x4'x 16"),but my signs all disappear. So, what do you call those people? Gougers? Opportunists? Butt heads?
 
"A guy with a toyota pickup loaded to an even bed with fresh green red oak selling on the street corner with a big sign, "Seasoned Oak,half a cord $75""
I see. As a 35 year set up welder in the Milwaukee area, "scab" has another meaning. I'm laid off right now, so I live in my summer cabin in a tourist area, rural, and I burn wood. I cut and split and stacked 6 cord a year ago, and 6 cord this spring. I'll sell some, but mostly I needed the work, split it all by hand.
So, next question, what do you call the people who tie 1 square foot bundles with twine and sell them for $5? Up here its six pieces of wood, not kiln dried, but there is a statewide ban on moving wood, so tourists are screwed. I was selling a quarter face cord of 16" hardwood for $20( Be equal to eight bundles -2'x4'x 16"),but my signs all disappear. So, what do you call those people? Gougers? Opportunists? Butt heads?

Now dont get in all a wad here.My point is this.If you want to sell firewood, then great.Sell firewood.If I meet you in the woods and you forgot your file, Ill loan you mine.Shoot,Ill even share my lunch with you if the misses packed you only a dried up saukerkraut donut glazed with pickle relish.I dont mind competition.
What I mind is this.Folks that sell a sub par product,lie about what is really there, and innocent folks suffer from it.Nothing unusual for folks in these trying times try and save a few bucks by buying a cheaper load of wood,believing that the seller is being straightforward when he says its "seasoned".
If you are selling oak that was cut a month ago, then drop the seasoned out of the ad.If you are selling a pickup load, the drop the "cord" out of it.

When you sell firewood that wont generate much more heat than what it takes to boil the water out of it, folks can really get in a jamb.Last winter I got a call from a long time customer in such a dilema.She had bought a cheap load to get her by,and when it got down to the zero mark she was unable to keep her home warm enough to keep the pipes under the sink from freezing.She called me.
After fighting my way up her mountain driveway in six inches of fresh powder on top of a nice layer of ice,I swapped out her wood for mine.That oak was so fresh it still smelled,but yet the guy who delivered it had no qualms about selling her what turned out to be four armloads less than a face cord.
 
Now dont get in all a wad here.My point is this.If you want to sell firewood, then great.Sell firewood.If I meet you in the woods and you forgot your file, Ill loan you mine.Shoot,Ill even share my lunch with you if the misses packed you only a dried up saukerkraut donut glazed with pickle relish.I dont mind competition.
What I mind is this.Folks that sell a sub par product,lie about what is really there, and innocent folks suffer from it.Nothing unusual for folks in these trying times try and save a few bucks by buying a cheaper load of wood,believing that the seller is being straightforward when he says its "seasoned".
If you are selling oak that was cut a month ago, then drop the seasoned out of the ad.If you are selling a pickup load, the drop the "cord" out of it.

When you sell firewood that wont generate much more heat than what it takes to boil the water out of it, folks can really get in a jamb.Last winter I got a call from a long time customer in such a dilema.She had bought a cheap load to get her by,and when it got down to the zero mark she was unable to keep her home warm enough to keep the pipes under the sink from freezing.She called me.
After fighting my way up her mountain driveway in six inches of fresh powder on top of a nice layer of ice,I swapped out her wood for mine.That oak was so fresh it still smelled,but yet the guy who delivered it had no qualms about selling her what turned out to be four armloads less than a face cord.

Selling green wood as seasoned happens with the "pros" too. A few years back when a motorcycle was my sole transportation I had to order a cord of oak from a guy that's been around selling wood for 35 years or more. It hissed and lisped like obama was giving a speech inside my woodstove. I was so disgusted that I bought a truck. And will never patronize him again.:greenchainsaw:
 
Never said that the "Pros" dont sell green wood.Lots of em do.but the question was, "what would you call a scab firewood cutter" and i told you what i thought.Plenty of rip off artists,ignorant sellers,thieves,scabs, what have you.

I adopted my business plan years ago:sell only good seasoned wood, deliver exactly the measured amount plus an arm load more,show up when I said i would,and above all be a business man with some integrity,even it it means not making so much dollars as I would like at the time.With the economy being the way that it is, this particular industry has been plagued with sellers with little business sense, poor moral values,and a desire to make a quick buck no matter who ends up on the losing end.Please note that I am not saying ALL new sellers are this way,some are not.But, in my experience,guys who have been layed off and look at selling firewood have little time for planning.They need the bucks now, and dont want to wait for that wood to season.they cut today, and sell this afternoon.And the customer ends up being the loser on the whole deal.
And,if that isnt bad enough, it seems to have really turned the publics opinion against anyone who does this year after year.They seem to lump us all together in the same lump.I dont do this full time,but I have been doing it for 30 years now.And still get treated with an upturned nose and a snotty attitude just because they got ripped off the last time they bought wood.
 
"Now dont get in all a wad here." Man, I'll never get this lingo down. Is a wad like a stupor, or a buzz? Some kinda beer drinking term?
Yeah, last year I bought 2 face cords, hauled them myself from 25 miles,damn near broke a spring,in Oct. $100. So, no call back to work, I needed wood at deer hunting, end of Nov. One face $50, hauled it myself. This is some disabled Nam vet cutting off the family homestead, nice maple, except there would be a cedar log here and there? So I go back in Jan, he won't answer the door or phone. Probably had twenty cords stacked,under two feet of snow. Talked to the "bundle lady",in my town, she said sure,$80 face cord. Well, its -22 that night, so the next day I call her, my ash I had cut in aug. wasn't ready. So she takes my order and address and I ask when it was cut Sept. .She says its half dry, burn it with dry wood. Uh, no.So then I call"Mr Firewood", has an ad in the paper 40miles south. He won't sat "its a cord". Its a dump box full. about a cord. I ask when its cut . 1 1/2 years. great $155+ $30 del.=$185. So he shows with about 2 1/2 face cords, I pay him, looks okay, he dumps it. Its covered in saw chips. It was in 8 foot pulp cords, when I called yesterday he shoveled the snow off it, cut and split and threw it in the truck. Being wet, all that crap stuck to it. That crap sizzled and smoked worse than any wood I ever saw. I don't call those last two scabs though, I call them douche bags. And the 50% dry lady and her alkie kid are taking down my signs.
 
So what's a consumer supposed to do?

I've got maybe enough wood for this next year and I don't have the time (as much as I long for it) to scavenge enough craigslist freebies to build up next year's supply.

How does a consumer start that conversation? It's easy enough to verify a cord (make a space in my wood storage area) but I'm struggling with how to verify 'seasoned'. I know what my wood (mostly maple) is like seasoned. But even relatively green oak will 'clink!' when you knock the ends together...

And do I have to make it adversarial from the get-go? That's not how I want to do business and I'm sure honest suppliers don't want to deal with a growly customer from the outset.
 
I'm usually just a woodburner for my own usage but I will occasionally sell a face cord or two to friends. Usually for their campwood or the once a week fire in the fireplace.

My rule of thumb goes like this for seasoning: If I wouldn't pick up that piece of wood and throw it in my woodfurnace and expect good heat from it, it is not ready to sell.

For load size: Throw a measured face cord on the trailer and then toss atleast another ten to twenty pieces on just to make sure that no matter how it is stacked it will be atleast a face cord of wood when the customer stacks it.

For the occasional armfull of wood for camping/backyard fire: Stop by and get whatever you need. If it happens several times per summer, leave a $10 on the woodpile.
 
I've got maybe enough wood for this next year and I don't have the time (as much as I long for it) to scavenge enough craigslist freebies to build up next year's supply.

How does a consumer start that conversation? It's easy enough to verify a cord (make a space in my wood storage area) but I'm struggling with how to verify 'seasoned'. I know what my wood (mostly maple) is like seasoned. But even relatively green oak will 'clink!' when you knock the ends together...

And do I have to make it adversarial from the get-go? That's not how I want to do business and I'm sure honest suppliers don't want to deal with a growly customer from the outset.

Your right, it doesnt have to get confrontational from the get go.But, there is many indications that will tell you if a chunk of wood is dry or if it was cut yesterday.

The ends of the pieces should have checks or cracks in them.If they dont,walk away.i dont care what species of wood, i dont care if it was stacked facing the eskimos or saudi arabia and a voodoo master shook a dead carrot over it, if its dry its going to have some deep checks in the end.

Coloring.If you take a hatchet and shave off a piece with the grain,it should be a very different color from the rest of the wood.Seasoned wood when exposed to sunlight greys out and loses its natural color.

Smell.Get to know the smell of the different species of wood when green.Red oak will make you sick if its really wet.Hickory has a very pleasant bitter smell to it when green.No matter what the fragrance, if its noticable,more than likely its green bar some exceptions and I am not going to wear my finger tips out listing them all to you.Besides, I doubt you have a lot up there to begin with,most of those reside in the southern states where everything stinks when its hot.

Weight of the wood is another good indicator.Do yourself a favor and become familiar with the species of wood that you are going to buy or commonly sold in the area.If you have a chunk of wood 16 inches long and it weights as much as my neighbors ten year old kid,its green.Again,I dont care if its hickory or cedar.Dry wood loses weight as it dries because a great deal of the weight of wood is water!

Knowledge is your best bet,second to that is ask around.if your friends or neighbors recommend a guy,check out their woodpile and the smoke or lack thereof coming out of their stovepipe.No smoke ten mintues after light off?seasoned wood.Lots of smoke?yeah,you got it.green wood.If in doubt, go buy yourself a cheap moisture meter from harbor freight.While they are not accurate, they do give you a good comparrison between what is in your woodpile and what is showing up on the back of the toyota full to the bed with soaking wet red oak dragging a sign that says, "Full cord of red oak, $50 or a quickie with your old lady."
 
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