A question for all you sparkies!

[Wirenut2266]

CJ: I didn't't catch the "master" wiring it up, oh well. Now: I respect all folks here to tackle all they can and save a buck just as I do, the American way. Heck do what you can and save $$$. I just went go/off when it comes to homes and safety. Lastly, my absolute biggest pet peeve: Do not give advice/help if you are not 100% sure of repair or install. Now I'm done, i'll calm down now, promise

 

[jwfirebird]

thanks nut, i just worry about my wife not remembering to switch off the main, or overloading my 6.2k gen. when im gone. shes actually had to hook it up a couple times before.

 

[Labman]

Setups requiring somebody to remember to throw the main are illegal.

 

[DLav]

As a utility line worker, I can guarantee one thing. If you backfeed me, you will go on the unofficial: Last To Be Restored List. Thats a promise.

To my brothers, be safe. Test for potential. Rubber gloves ground to ground.

 

[JAL]

As a utility line worker, I can guarantee one thing. If you backfeed me, you will go on the unofficial: Last To Be Restored List. Thats a promise.

To my brothers, be safe. Test for potential. Rubber gloves ground to ground.

Very good point! :agree2:

Here's a "do it right" blueprint on how to hook up a generator the right way. Most all other ways are not stupid proof.

View attachment 85278

 

[CowboyAndy]

THATS NOT RIGHT! all you do is pull the meter and push the wires from the generator in to the clips. god, how hard can it be.

You are an idiot, and need to meet the tip of my chainsaw.



Seems like alot of folks like to make up a male to male extension cord to backfeed receps from the generator. This is the WORST thing you can do, next to backfeeding with the potential to backfeed into the grid.

Do it right and no one will get hurt!

 

[Labman]

As generators have become more popular, new safe, legal, approved, fool proof ways have developed to connect them to the house wiring. They don't include cords with 2 male ends. While pulling your meter absolutely stops backfeeding, the electric company may pitch a ##### about the seal.

 

[CowboyAndy]

As generators have become more popular, new safe, legal, approved, fool proof ways have developed to connect them to the house wiring. They don't include cords with 2 male ends. While pulling your meter absolutely stops backfeeding, the electric company may pitch a ##### about the seal.

It's also illeagal for a homeowner to pull a meter.

 

[Lloyd H]

backfeeding

Back feeding a dryer receptacle is like driving a little drunk, sure you can get by with it, but eventually it will bite you same as driving drunk. Some people drive drunk for many years and do ok, some people kill other people doing either. It just isn't worth the risk involved. If you have a "whole house sized" generator install it with a transfer switch. If you have a smaller generator use extension cords or install receptacles near critical loads on a dedicated emergency circuit that is totally isolated from other house wiring, the emergency circuit plugs into the generator and critical loads are unplugged from regular receptacles and moved over to the emergency circuit. Cut the wiring to the furnace and feed a receptacle with it, install stub cord on furnace and plug it in. This also allows a surge protector to be plugged in to the furnace feed to protect electronics in the furnace, do the same for OWB etc. Also the plug and receptacle approach gives a positive disconnect for service of furnace etc. In 41 years of HVAC service I've seen a number of switches on the side of furnaces that switch the ground side of the line, a plug and receptacle is positive. Don't be the guy that injured or killed a lineman back feeding or injured or killed driving even a little drunk. Happy new year everyone. Cowboy Andy, actually it is legal to pull a meter, but not so to replace it. If you pull it, call the power co to reinstall it.

 

[Wirenut2266]

LAB: Damnit, now you pissed me off again. You stated setup's without the main be disconnected are illegal? Tell where where to find that in the NEC? Again, shut thy pie-hole if you don't know what your talking about. If this is the case, man, I got trouble brewing. I've prolly installed 30 or 40 generator panels, none had any interlock that involved the main disconnect? Where do you get your info? All my work is inspected, guess what, all passed. Why can't I have two branch breakers, side by side, with mechanical interlock? This is in the code book, tell me the article # and sub-section. I'm right, your wrong.......again, nuff said.

 

[cord arrow]

Same old STORY, same old SONG and dance...my friends.

 

[Labman]

LAB: Damnit, now you pissed me off again. You stated setup's without the main be disconnected are illegal? Tell where where to find that in the NEC? Again, shut thy pie-hole if you don't know what your talking about. If this is the case, man, I got trouble brewing. I've prolly installed 30 or 40 generator panels, none had any interlock that involved the main disconnect? Where do you get your info? All my work is inspected, guess what, all passed. Why can't I have two branch breakers, side by side, with mechanical interlock? This is in the code book, tell me the article # and sub-section. I'm right, your wrong.......again, nuff said.

I have actually discussed this subject with rational, well informed people.

Oh, and why are you so upset with my code approved mechanical interlock between the main and feed breaker?

 

[Wirenut2266]

I see, now I'm not rational. You are avoiding my question? Like I thought, you don't know squat about the NEC. If that handle-tie is approved, ok, fine. But don't make comments about the NEC if you can't back them up, Correct? Main breaker does not have to be "open" if a generator is suppliying power to a panel, that panel being main service panel or generator sub panel, period! Hense, 3-position branch breakers which up to 6 may be installed and grouped, or a mechanical interlock between 2 double pole branch breakers, one utility feed, one generator feed. How long do you want to debate this? I've been a electrician 19 years, you. Don't give advice on limited knowledge.
I'm done on this subject.

 

[DLav]

Just removing and installing meters can be dangerous to both life and property. It's not uncommon to pull a meter and half of the mounting lug breaks and comes out with it, or snaps back into the meter socket. Unrepaired this leaves an arc flash hazard and or fire hazard, but worse, what happens if your in there repairing it when the power comes back on? More importantly, meters have exploded during installation, our company requires 600v rubber gloves and a face shield for installing meters, flying glass and fire in your face may keep you in the dark forever, literally. Utility theft is definitely NOT the power companies only concern for sealing the meter socket. The reason it has a removable seal instead of a lock is for emergency removal, a house fire, earthquake, etc.

I don't want to get into any arguments with anybody. The NEC is gospel, many of the NFPA and OSHA guidelines are written from the NEC. I'm all for saving a buck, if you want to do it yourself, consult your local power company and your local electrical inspector, you may need a permit and an inspection, but the cost will be well worth the peace of mind.

Most of us have a budget to work within, and spending a lot of money on an emergency backup power source usually isn't top on the list. But keep in mind that whatever you decide on, your wife or kids may have to set this up if your stranded out of town and can't get home right away. If the generator hasn't been started in a while it may be a job for them just to get it running. Remember too that they will most likely be doing this in the dark, and quite possibly while its raining/snowing/sleet. Wet conditions + dark + less than ideal electrical scenarios = my job, not your family's job. While you may feel comfortable pulling the meter, are you going to ask your teenage daughter to do it...... in the dark? Again, peace of mind can be invaluable.

Be safe.

If it ain't grounded, it ain't dead. Words to live by.

 

[Scootermsp]

Emergency fix - legal

If only need to run your 5036, in a tight spot you can run an extension cord from your genny and plug the pump inside directly into it. As far as the damper, place a 16 penny nail in it and it will keep the damper open just enough to maintain your heat. My CB dealer told me about the 16d trick, it also works as an emergency fix for solenoid/controller problems. I have mine wired through a transfer switch. A couple weeks ago I needed it for 4 days due to ice storm.opcorn:

 

[November Wolf]

If only need to run your 5036, in a tight spot you can run an extension cord from your genny and plug the pump inside directly into it. As far as the damper, place a 16 penny nail in it and it will keep the damper open just enough to maintain your heat. My CB dealer told me about the 16d trick, it also works as an emergency fix for solenoid/controller problems. I have mine wired through a transfer switch. A couple weeks ago I needed it for 4 days due to ice storm.opcorn:

I have a 6048. Thanks for that great tip.

 

[Mike Van]

I spent 35 years as a power co. lineman before retiring. In that streach, I pretty much saw it all. The good, the bad, & the beyond ugly. People that think it's o.k. to just yank meters, wire whatever they want to, etc have never seen an electrical flash up close & personal. Know the codes & follow them. Yes, some might seem to be chicken sh*t but they're there to protect you & your family. My best line for customers that didn't like codes was "I don't want to hear the fire siren and wonder if it's something I left unfixed" I had one guy that was so indignant about his botched up service work he did, I had to go one step above that - Told him I was going to have the fire marshal come check it out. That cured that problem.

 

[treeslayer]

I have actually discussed this subject with rational, well informed people.

Oh, and why are you so upset with my code approved mechanical interlock between the main and feed breaker?

A Chemist arguing with an Electrician about generators in a firewood forum on an arborist website.
opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:

nothing more dangerous than a little knowledge.

I think a good lesson in this is that KNOWING how to do something is good,
but telling others HOW to do something without the appropriate training
and certification is wrong.

If I told someone how to do something electrical, and there was a problem,
then I have a problem legally as I hold a Master Electrician license.

If a chemist gives advice and a house burns down or someone gets hurt,
then the problem is someone listening to a chemist.

He certainly has the right to describe his methods, though, on this open forum.
but to argue the point becomes an issue.
To those looking for advice, consider the source of all your info,
and get a LOCAL Electrician to answer questions.

This not a personal attack on Labman, only my qualified opinion.

 

[mimilkman1]

If only need to run your 5036, in a tight spot you can run an extension cord from your genny and plug the pump inside directly into it. As far as the damper, place a 16 penny nail in it and it will keep the damper open just enough to maintain your heat. My CB dealer told me about the 16d trick, it also works as an emergency fix for solenoid/controller problems. I have mine wired through a transfer switch. A couple weeks ago I needed it for 4 days due to ice storm.opcorn:

This is what I did for a while to keep the water from freezing before I got the "illegal" gen hookup. Surprising enough though I had the door closed with no air getting to the fire for 16 hours and when I opened the door within 2 minutes I had a roaring fire going so the coals hold for a long time without outside air.

Kyle

 

[blakey]

Here is the way most farms around here hook up generators. I have a pto generator I hook on my tractor and pull it up beside my transformer pole. There is a transfer switch at the top of the pole with a pull handle. The large box about 4ft off the ground is for cord storage. This setup works great if you already have a tractor and need to feed multiple buildings. Another bonus is it also serves as a main disconnect for the incoming service. I shut it down this morning to be safe while I replaced the photo sensor on my yard light. That transfer switch has been there for over 30 years, I had to get it serviced last year - it needed lube and a new pull handle.