A Tail of Two Woods

[PhilD41]

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of ....... Ah I will save you the rest of the quote. :biggrin:

Seriously though, I have about 2.5 acres of woods (40+ year unattended pasture). Most trees are junk or simply underbrush. Those that are big enough to cut are Hackberry, Boxelder, Silver Maple and Bur Oak. The Maples and Oaks are huge, 4' diameter plus. My plan is to slowly clear it out and replant in the attempt to maximize my firewood generation on my own property.

That is where this question comes in. Since this forum is for Firewood (and similar equipment) I thought I would keep it here and ask what you like to burn. I would love to plant Oak, Hickory, and the like, but they would be too slow growing for me to get much use out of my little lot. This led me to Locust. Originally I thought about filling the lot with Black Locust, but a few of the charts show that Honey Locust have slightly higher BTU value. With four small kids, I also like that there is a thorn-less variety.

From what I have found on the intertubes, Locust is a preferred tree for firewood. Most of it mentions Black Locust though. So, I thought I would solicit some personal experience. So....

• Given a choice, which would you prefer to burn, Honey or Black or does it not matter?
• Are there other fast growing trees you would recommend that I am missing?
• Any other suggestions for this beginner?

Thanks for you input, suggestions, snide comments, or obscure Charles D.ickens' quotes! (<- yes, I know there is a period there :biggrin

 

[mizzou]

Don't put all your trust in the btu charts, different ones give different numbers. Black Locust and Osage Orange give me about equal burn times and heat output. Both grow pretty fast. I prefer Black Locust Becuase it generally grows straight and splits relatively easy. I don't know about Iowa, but in Missouri I can order bundles of 25 trees for about 5 to 8 dollers a bundle. These trees are about 2 ft. tall. Honey Locust makes excellent heat, but it does have the big thorns, attracts the sawdust making bugs, and isn't as rot resistant as Osage Orange or Black Locust.

 

[zogger]

you already have them growing

You already have what you need growing there. Just ID and tag smaller trees you want to keep as you clear, and be careful around them (as much as possible). What is growing there is the best adapted for your situation, and is already "installed". Just take out larger trees now and crippled trees, etc.

All one kind of wood, a tree plantation deal, or "mono culture" is just begging to get hit with the next weird blight or exotic species insect infestation. Happens all the time. There's a reason you see mostly mixed species in nature and not all one kind of tree.

If you absolutely want to clearcut and start from scratch, consider a mixed grove of fruit and nut trees, a whole lotta species. You get added bonus food for you and local animals, and pret near all fruit and nut trees are excellent firewood.

I've been in a lot of old CCC planted forests down here and they are just...sterile. Downright creepy looking, and not many animals in there. I mean the woods are just no fun at all, and again, some random blight and you are wiped out.

 

[Hedgerow]

+1 with Mizzou... Black over Honey locust. If the Honey Locust trees are thornless cultivars, then it wouldn't matter as much.
+1 also Zogger... What is growing in your lot, is what will be the most hearty. I love burning Hackberry, but you need something to mix with it. Are you seeing any young saplings of any desired varieties trying to get started currently?

 

[turnkey4099]

+1 on zoggers mention of bugs. Out here (E Washington) the locust borer is killing the Black Locust. Takes them years to die but they get very ratty looking fast.

Harry K

 

[CTYank]

I'd inquire of the local Agricultural Extension Agent, and see if you can connect with a state forester for advice on how to meet your goals.

You're paying for the service; shouldn't take him/her more than a couple of hours to come up with a plan suited to your growing area. :cool2:

 

[mizzou]

Truly, I agree with zogger, but he only has 2.5 acres. If he is planning on getting a lot of his wood from that it will have to be managed rather intensively. Even then he won't get all he needs from that small of a woodlot.

 

[H-Ranch]

"The great trees, which had looked shrunken and bare in the earlier months, had now burst into strong life and health;"

Good advice to get a forester to look at your situation. There are also some good homesteading and forestry management resources if you search the internet. I would say take out the largest trees for more opportunity for the smaller ones to take off. Cut anything Dead, Damaged, Diseased, or Dysfunctional. Nothing wrong with the lesser varieties - they have their place as firewood in the fall and spring.

Keep your goals realistic though. The number I go by is 1 acre of woods will provide 1 cord of wood per year indefinitely. I'm sure it's different for temperature, species, sun, rainfall, soil, insects, and other characteristics of the land. If you manage it you should increase that. Oh, and season the wood correctly for the most output when you do burn.

 

[redheadwoodshed]

I know growth rates vary in other places, but black locust(and honey) grow fast up to about pole size, then slow down, around here.Have you heard of sawtooth oaks, they're supposed to be fast growers.I planted some acorns earlier this spring and the seedlings are almost 2'.

 

[PhilD41]

Don't put all your trust in the btu charts, different ones give different numbers.

I am not. I have seen several with different opinions. I assume there is some truth in their average at lease so that is exactly why I was asking. We have both around, but I have not been fortunate enough to burn any to tell.

You already have what you need growing there. ... What is growing there is the best adapted for your situation, and is already "installed". Just take out larger trees now and crippled trees, etc.

Yes and no. Pretty much everything around here was imported at some point. My lot was a pasture for many years so I have VERY old trees and the rest are just seeded from those. I am pretty sure the original trees were brought in. I appreciate your comments on variety though... Just want some with faster growing trees than what is out there.... if possible. I have no intention of clear cutting and starting over. That would take more resources than I have. I would like to take a quarter acre swath each year and get it manageable with the right trees to maximize my land potential. I expect this will be a 10 year + process.

Are you seeing any young saplings of any desired varieties trying to get started currently?

I believe most of the saplings are silver maple and hackberry. The oaks grow to slow and are too shaded to make it. Or the get eaten. I have never found one that looked older than two or three years old.

I'd inquire of the local Agricultural Extension Agent, and see if you can connect with a state forester for advice on how to meet your goals.

I actually started that process a few years ago. I didn't get a ton of help, but some. We had some life interruptions so I should probably head that direction again. I also have a close friend that is a registered arboriculturist. He spent some time out in them a year ago or so helping me out. I still like to do some research..... The internet counts as research right?

Truly, I agree with zogger, but he only has 2.5 acres. ... Even then he won't get all he needs from that small of a woodlot.

I was originally hoping for 2 or 3 cords a year. I would love more, but don't know if it is practical. I am going to give it a shot though.

"The great trees, which had looked shrunken and bare in the earlier months, had now burst into strong life and health;"
Keep your goals realistic though. The number I go by is 1 acre of woods will provide 1 cord of wood per year indefinitely.

I am hoping for a little more than that, but I know it may not be doable. Thanks for the Oliver Twist quote.

I know growth rates vary in other places, but black locust(and honey) grow fast up to about pole size, then slow down, around here.Have you heard of sawtooth oaks, they're supposed to be fast growers.I planted some acorns earlier this spring and the seedlings are almost 2'.

I hadn't heard that before. Thanks for in information. I will have to start looking for that type of information as well. As for the Sawtooth Oaks.... The show to be Zone 5 and higher. I am snow deep in Zone 4.

 

[TMFARM 2009]

the fastest growing are usually the lower btu's..i would say what you have is the best option for re-population..also native species grow better...opcorn:

 

[turnkey4099]

I know growth rates vary in other places, but black locust(and honey) grow fast up to about pole size, then slow down, around here.Have you heard of sawtooth oaks, they're supposed to be fast growers.I planted some acorns earlier this spring and the seedlings are almost 2'.

IME that is correct. B Locust also has a habit of 'copsing' - starting new trees from roots of the older ones. Unless thinned it is easy to wind up with a batch of 'locust bush', saplings everywhere and no trees of any real size.

I am currently harvesting trees in the 30 - 36" DBH range that were planted by the original homesteaders back in the late 1800s. These are trees around homesteads where sprouts were either eaten or mowed over regularly.

Harry K

 

[mizzou]

the fastest growing are usually the lower btu's..i would say what you have is the best option for re-population..also native species grow better...opcorn:

IME that is correct. B Locust also has a habit of 'copsing' - starting new trees from roots of the older ones. Unless thinned it is easy to wind up with a batch of 'locust bush', saplings everywhere and no trees of any real size.

Harry K

Yep on both. Years ago I read an article about maximizing woodlot potential, they completely met thier heating needs with 5 acres growing hybrid poplars. Not a recommendation just a thought.

 

[zogger]

fastest and most common

The one tree I have seen mentioned over the years for fast repopulation and wood harvesting for general purposes is the hybrid poplar. Certainly not the best firewood, but grows ..like the d i c k e n s...

ha

The other would be industrial hemp if we could ever get the government to cut loose with the nuts war on some drugs...I believe you could get the most biomass/cellulose per acre per year from that. Plus grow your own fuel, press oil from the seeds and make some veggie diesel, and then feed the leftovers to some livestock. A nice multi use crop.

 

[Hedgerow]

This may sound stupid, but I don't know of two naturally occurring trees around here that grow much faster than silver maple and Hackberry.... Granted, not the highest BTU woods around, but I could burn those 2 varieties exclusively and meet my heat needs year round if I had to. But would want at least "some" Hedge or Oak for night burning. With all the bugs we got around here, I have yet to see any that actually "like" Hackberry"...

 

[iowa]

This may sound stupid, but I don't know of two naturally occurring trees around here that grow much faster than silver maple and Hackberry.... Granted, not the highest BTU woods around, but I could burn those 2 varieties exclusively and meet my heat needs year round if I had to. But would want at least "some" Hedge or Oak for night burning. With all the bugs we got around here, I have yet to see any that actually "like" Hackberry"...

Hackberry is ok to burn and silver maple is crap. We live in a pretty mild area during the winter. Up in Iowa it's darn cold. They need the best burning hardwood they can find.

With that being said. I am splitting around 10 cord of Honey Locust that I had delivered in log form from a tree removal service. They took off all thorns etc. It splits really nice. Very straight grained. I haven't cut a black locust yet, or burned any. Only Honey locust.

I did however purchase 30 black locust trees and 30 pin oaks from our conservation office. I think they were like $6 for a bundle of 30. The Black Locust were a yr older than the pin oaks. Right now the Black Locust are over 6' tall and 2" diameter trunks. They grow fast! Only the new growth has needles and they're like 1/2" long. But in the winter they seem to set more needles on the old growth, probably to protect them from the deer. The Pin oak haven't grown much. They're only 1 1/2' tall..

I planted these trees in rows and they're 12' apart. With the next row of trees staggered. I know. Too close. But my method is for a good wind break, not to see my a-hole neighbor and get some good straight trunk trees. Seems like when trees are placed closer together they grow straight towards the heavens instead of spreading out..

 

[iowa]

If you would like I could show you what going on 4yr old Black locust look like vs. going on 3yr old pin oak. Side by side..

 

[ks_osage_orange]

I like the suggestions of native species. There is nothing wrong with Hackberry or Silver Maple. If you want to plant some other more favorable species in there as well, go ahead. Some of the the brushy stuff that is already there would probably do well with some benificial pruning, and they could make some nice already established tress down the road. A note on Hybrid Poplars. I have planted some of them at my farm just to try them because curiosity gets the best of me. They do grow fast. I have a couple of 25 footers that are going into their 5th growing season (they were 5' whips when I planted them...so more than 5' per year). I haven't burned any yet, but I will. I can already tell though they will be lower quality firewood. The are a cross between a Cottonwood and I believe a Lombardy polar. In other words low BTU. and the deer eat the heck out of them. The ones that are big are in a protected area near a shop that I mow around. The ones I've planted out in "wilder" areas get ravaged by deer, but they don't get destroyed they are pretty hardy. I've had the most success here in KS, just transplanting naturally growing saplings of Silver Maple, Green ash..don't over look this species, Not much luck transplanting naturally growing oaks. I bet it's better to plant acorns with them???? Either locust species will be good, why not go with both. Diversity is key to a healthy ecosystem.

Edit: spelled diversity wrong, thought I should fix it.

 

[PhilD41]

If you would like I could show you what going on 4yr old Black locust look like vs. going on 3yr old pin oak. Side by side..

That would be great. I love pictures!! I have yet found anyone with personal experience with the trees.

Diversity is key to a healthy

True, I am starting to realize I should have a few out there. I would like to bring in some locust (either or both) to try and start a slightly faster growing tree. I expect the hackberry saplings will take off once I get some of the larger that are shading them down. The oaks are just SLOW!

From several of the other comments, I have been burning a lot of hackberry and silver maple. Also had a fair amount of oak (from a friend) and I believe hickory. I have the E-Classic OWB from Central boiler and only fill once a day... even when it is -25 outside. I would prefer to stay with the once a day fill, but would be willing to do more if it meant not paying for wood. Thanks for the input and suggestions. You guys are a wealth of knowledge!

 

[iowa]

Here's a picture. Right row is Black Locust and left row is Pin Oak.