Accepted ribbon colors to mark trees?

[s219]

I need to prepare a 4 acre piece of land for some wood cutting operations. It will eventually become a homesite, but starting in January, we want to cut in a road and then cut some trees for firewood and to thin out and manage the forest. It's mainly pine with a variety of hardwoods mixed in the middle and a lot of hardwoods on the boundaries.

I can see a couple scenarios coming up, where I will need to mark keeper trees in one area, and then mark trees to cut in a different area. Is there a convention or accepted practice for ribbons and ribbon colors to mark both types of trees? Since there will be different road clearing and logging crews, plus me running around chasing firewood, it will make sense to use whatever standard the crews will recognize so that I don't need to keep explaining what's what. On top of that, the site is already flagged with some pink and orange ribbons from the site survey.

thanks,
219

 

[slowp]

Paint. Mark the cut trees in blue tree paint, or whatever color is used in that area. If you are worried about the wrong trees getting cut, put a blob/dot of paint below the stump level, in a crevice. Ground level is best for that mark. Then a higher mark at DBH so the trees can be seen.

You can also mark leave trees. Just be aware that you will be staring at that paint color on your trees for a while. Ideally you'll want a butt mark at ground level on those trees too.

On Forest Service land, Blue is for cutting and Orange is for leaving.

Flagging can be moved, chewed off by deer and elk and whatever else, and falls off. Paint can also be duplicated, but is better to use for cut tree marking. If you have very well behaved fallers, you can get away with flagging (ribbon). Blue is easy to see. You could use that for cut and striped or something not already there for leave trees. Make sure you have the areas of leave and cut tree designation delineated with some kind of a boundary. Otherwise, confusion and mayhem could result. Make it simple.

There is special tree marking paint available. Regular paint gets sucked into the bark. Tree paint will not do that. I bet Bailey's sells it.

 

[Samlock]

I agree. Plus tying the ribbons around the individual trees is slow. And you need to hug them too in the process.

 

[slowp]

I agree. Plus tying the ribbons around the individual trees is slow. And you need to hug them too in the process.

Then a relationship might occur and you won't want to see the trees cut!:msp_smile:

 

[Samlock]

Then a relationship might occur and you won't want to see the trees cut!:msp_smile:

Exactly!

 

[hammerlogging]

yup, paint for the cut trees.

If your leave tree marking is, say, around the homesite, do some research on tree protection around clearing/grading construction, consider leaving a 10' radius buffer or so not to be cleared until its all said and done. If you wonder why, g look at a new development with homes in the "woods" and see how after 5 yrs about half of the leave trees are dead.

 

[Slamm]

Paint your leave trees low, as that tree paint can last several years and it will look dumb. Or just paint the trees to cut and tell them if its not painted to not cut it, but paint the cut trees will with a ring around it.

Put an orange ring about 2 feet high and one or more dots in the root swells, so you can check and see if they did cut a leave tree.

Paint the trees to cut all the way around, nothing more bothersome than a person that marks the tree with one little dot on the dumbest side of the tree so you have to walk all the way around it just to see if it should be cut.

There are shallow graves in some of the hills of Wisconsin of forest managers that don't mark trees very well, obviously they don't know how pissed off carrying a 660 down a steep hill just to find NO mark on the tree, you thought should be marked and then look back up, and see, they have marked several trees that you walked right past because they marked from the downhill side, when we had to cut from the uphill side, or vice versus, dumb.

Sam

 

[2dogs]

Good advice, esp to use tree paint rather than spray paint and also to leave buffer trees that can be cut later. Make sure everything is in writing and that you require your contractor to alays carry the paperwork in his truck. I would also, along with the paint, use pink "DO NOT CUT" flagging on your leave trees. Most tree service employees here don't speak English so tell your contractor he is liable for the actions of all of his employees and that monetary penalties will be enforced if incidental damage occurs. If a leave tree is cut the contractor has to pay you, say $5,000.00 per tree. That should get his attention and make sure he tells his employees. In addition tell him that you need to be named as an insured on his policy. Usually that means you will have to pay an additional amount, around $150.00. Takes lots of pics from many different angles of the jobsite before anu work is started but after the trees are marked. Put all the images on one disc and give the contractor a copy. Oh and don't forget to get the neccesary permits.

 

[s219]

Thanks for all the input everyone -- very helpful. This is going to be a big project for me, and I figure it will take the next few weeks to plan.

Permits are interesting around here. It's a big production for land clearing over 2,500 square feet, to the point that I wouldn't be able to apply to do it myself without getting state trained for responsible land disturbance certification. However, if done as part of a building permit, then clearing is OK with no additional permit. Permits are also not needed if work is done as part of timbering operation under 10,000 square feet, or for firewood or diseased-tree removal. So, being someone who likes to find the gray area in the rules, I plan to create a logging road and timber harvest area under 10,000 square feet and use that to access firewood and diseased trees for forest management. If the logging road happens to make a good driveway in the future that would just be a coincidence of course...

My plan for the trees I want to keep is to make sure no heavy equipment disturbs the ground within canopy radius. Any clearing inside that range would be by saw only. The lot has several wetlands protection buffers that you can clear right up to, but running equipment across tree roots outside the buffer is a no-no, so care is needed there also.

If there weren't issues with stump disposal, I would get a 310 backhoe up there myself, dig the stumps on one side, and then push them over and pluck out (this seems to work well on small pine stumps). But my problem is what to do with the stumps afterwards. There really won't be a place to bury or pile them within the land, so they will definitely need to get hauled off. Once I get into the logistics of moving stumps around and loading them into a hauler, combined with timber removal and sales, suddenly it makes more sense to hire a contractor for the big stuff. I have seen these guys come in and take care of business in 1-2 days. They are also state certified for land disturbance, and won't have to dance around the rules as much as I would. They just need to be on a short leash, since they tend to cut/clear more than agreed upon from what people have told me, and aren't real careful about protecting desirable trees nearby.

So, my initial plan is to mark all the trees in the path of the logging road with tape (will be on the order of 50-60 trees). I plan to cut and carry desirable firewood trees myself, leaving high stumps. Then the crew will come in to clear the logging road of pines (to be sold for pulp) and also take care of my stumps. I hope to mark the trees in the next week or so, then get a couple contractors to bid on the job.

 

[madhatte]

Paint the trees to cut all the way around, nothing more bothersome than a person that marks the tree with one little dot on the dumbest side of the tree so you have to walk all the way around it just to see if it should be cut.

Oh, man, you would not believe the #####ing and wailing we got from the Peanut Gallery when we banned Zorro-striping in favor of 360 degree rings. Loggers don't miss 'em that way, though. Totally worth it.

 

[Dalmatian90]

When I've seen trees here marked, it's a blue slash up high, and a blue blob at ground level. Count trees as marked, and count up stumps after the cut (which is why you mark low).

If after the logger is done if there's more stumps with blue dots then the forester had written down before cutting started, go grab some opcorn: because the day's entertainment is starting.

Yellow seems to be the favored property boundary color, though I can only recall seeing that on State Forests and other public lands. I know other states use other colors.

 

[slowp]

Oh, man, you would not believe the #####ing and wailing we got from the Peanut Gallery when we banned Zorro-striping in favor of 360 degree rings. Loggers don't miss 'em that way, though. Totally worth it.

However, on steep ground, and I'm talking steeeeep out here, it is ok to slap paint on the downhill side and dot the uphill. The fallers will be working their way up so no need, except for the convenience of the person marking skyline corridors, ahem...to paint all the way around the tree. A good solid but and dbh mark on the downhill side is a good thing. You also need to mark the side so you who are marking can follow your line back while marking. Tracer paint, which is not available to the general public, is spendy stuff.

Whilst marking the corridors, I would work up hill and then come down another corridor painting away.

The tree butt mark, is the most important mark here. You want to get it as low as you can, and have it in a crevice, not on a swelled part, because anything sticking out is a candidate for getting rubbed. Scars and hollow spots are good places to spray paint into. Think of what will survive after yarding.

The contracts here state that maximum stump height is 12 inches. It also states that trees will be cut above the stump mark. That latter part sometimes needs to be pointed out to buncher and processor operators. There are some of them that love to make stumps so low that you can slide right over them.

There's more to it than you would think.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

What you may want to do first is develop a land management plan. The plan covers what will be done now to preserver and protect the value of the land and timer resource and any area that is sensitive to damage,like water ways and weak soils,the plan can also cover future structure locations and access points to remove timber or other material. Take the time and photograph before and during each phase of work. If you do a plan you can assign a a paint scheme for the land (Like blue for removal). With a plan when you hire contractors they can understand what your land goals are.Preplanned the land use will make it a lot easier to figure out what stage of work needs done first. I use yellow for limbing and red for removal on the tree farm. The color you use should be the same a your state uses to avoid confusion,check with the local office of the state forester. A plan you develop can be used by the future generations of your family to follow your wishes for the land.

 

[StevenBiars]

If you need an erosion management plan, I'm a geologist by trade, and will gladly help (no cost). I run a small company in Ohio (GeoLogic), and thus I'm always looking for opportunities to expand my portfolio. Besides, we're all brothers here at the forum. If you need a hand, just drop me a line.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

I do plans for people who have to meet the state law in Oregon that requires land owners to make their land "FIREWISE".

 

[Slamm]

I do plans for people who have to meet the state law in Oregon that requires land owners to make their land "FIREWISE".

Oh for the love of god, you do not. After looking at anything you have shown in a video or written, nobody with any sense would have you "do plans" for anything, except how to dig yourself into a hole of BS.

Here is a fire plan from you,"Go pick up the sticks in your yard and rake your leaves.", LOL.

Will it ever end,

Sam

 

[Gologit]

I do plans for people who have to meet the state law in Oregon that requires land owners to make their land "FIREWISE".

http://www.arboristsite.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3266244

 

[floyd]

Correct me if I am wrong... the marking crew is paid by the hour.

So, let us assume I am correct. Yet they whined if it took longer to mark a tree?

Different story if piecework or they are salarymen.

 

[slowp]

Correct me if I am wrong... the marking crew is paid by the hour.

So, let us assume I am correct. Yet they whined if it took longer to mark a tree?

Different story if piecework or they are salarymen.

Nope, it is whining because it takes more paint, which is carried on one's back. Before the paint accountability got so strict, we had paint packed in by pack mule and stashed. The roads are often not built or opened up when marking. Yeah, I know, a saw is heavier. Everybody I know who marked timber here has back problems, even those who are not whiners.

Here, on the westside, we'd load up those terribly unergonomic green canvas backpacks. I'd have to take it off and throw it over any big logs that I needed to get over. I was lucky, it was not my usual job. I production marked on the eastside, where you stuffed as many quarts in your vest, plus water, plus lunch. Less paint, but more walking. We never used aerosol. We used quarts. The vest got lighter as the day went on, but it was heavy in the morning, and you can't stash your paint because you are covering a lot of ground.

The loggers are now marking their own units. One guy here contracts out. He also put on a training session for unemployed people, but nobody made it through the whole day. It was too much work.

A hint: Always try to run your line of painting up and down. That way you are actually working back and forth on the sidehill, instead of up and down. Kind of like cutting.

Those marks you guys come across on little trees? They're so we can keep track of where we've been if there aren't any big trees handy that are marked. Just like falling, each person has a strip, and you have to tie in to that strip and be able to follow the person marking ahead of you. Or your own strip.

If you use quarts and a paint gun, you take good care of that gun and you don't share it. Sound familiar??:smile2:

 

[Joe46]

http://www.arboristsite.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3266244

Glad you kept that handy. You'll probably need it at least once a week. Two weeks tops.:msp_thumbup: