Advanced hydraulics dual pump splitter build diesel mower conversion

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"Wood stacker no more..."
What a huge difference in reduced effort handling wood.
It takes longer.
Every time a basket is full you have to stop and switch out.
And there is an expense in acquiring baskets, or containers, but it is so worth it.

Is a regeneration valve different than a dump valve?
It seems to be if it effects the extend stroke.
Can you explain the difference?
 
I will do my best to explain. A dump valve is a pilot to open valve cartridge. Once pressure is applied to pilot port the valve opens and dumps the oil. I am using a sequence valve and other check valves to create a pressure sensing regeneration valve. The sequence valve will bypass extra oil and hold a adjustable pressure at the inlet port. Regeneration can also be done with a pilot counter balance valve. A counter balance valve will open as the pressure increases to the pilot port.

Each one of the cartridges uses the same valve body. There function just depends on the cartridge that is installed in the valve body. You can go buy a regeneration valve but I could not find them on Ebay. So I bought the parts on Ebay to make a regenerative setup. Those I could find old new stock.

In regeneration the oil coming out of the cylinder rod end is added to the oil going into the cylinder base thus increasing the oil going into the cylinder base. But to maintain the power for splitting the added rod oil is diverted to tank once a selected pressure is reached.
 
I will do my best to explain. A dump valve is a pilot to open valve cartridge. Once pressure is applied to pilot port the valve opens and dumps the oil. I am using a sequence valve and other check valves to create a pressure sensing regeneration valve. The sequence valve will bypass extra oil and hold a adjustable pressure at the inlet port. Regeneration can also be done with a pilot counter balance valve. A counter balance valve will open as the pressure increases to the pilot port.

Each one of the cartridges uses the same valve body. There function just depends on the cartridge that is installed in the valve body. You can go buy a regeneration valve but I could not find them on Ebay. So I bought the parts on Ebay to make a regenerative setup. Those I could find old new stock.

In regeneration the oil coming out of the cylinder rod end is added to the oil going into the cylinder base thus increasing the oil going into the cylinder base. But to maintain the power for splitting the added rod oil is diverted to tank once a selected pressure is reached.

Very well explained doug. You have provided lots of valuable information on the thread.
 
Schematic of plumbing auto cycle with regeneration



Plus different plumbing for TM splitter.


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Sent from my SM-N910R4 using Tapatalk
 
Changing the hydraulic regeneration. This version is better because it will give me full power when I need it. Plus it will work better with the auto cycle. Already using this style with my TM splitter. It provides a softer smoother kick down to full power. It uses a counter balance valve instead of a sequence valve. The amount a regeneration is based on the pressure at the base of cylinder.
4e9310db1353bb7d868425eed9380d16.jpg


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
Changing the hydraulic regeneration. This version is better because it will give me full power when I need it. Plus it will work better with the auto cycle. Already using this style with my TM splitter. It provides a softer smoother kick down to full power. It uses a counter balance valve instead of a sequence valve. The amount a regeneration is based on the pressure at the base of cylinder.
4e9310db1353bb7d868425eed9380d16.jpg


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
o_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_O if you say so:D I can't read Greek but it looks good to me:D:D:D
 
Doug, at first I didnt think to much about regen on a wood splitter simply because of the power loss. To give a example of the loss, a 4in bore x 2in rod with a 24in stroke cyl at 3000psi would normally equate to a 20ton log splitter. (I'm rounding numbers here). With regen, that same cyl at same pressure would turn into about a 5ton wood splitter. Even tho the cycle time would be reduced considerablely, the force trade off to me wouldnt be worth the effort.

My mind has sort of changed now that I see what you are attempting. Altho your schematic is sort of vague as to exactly what you are plumbing in, I can see the potential. For those that dont know, regen is simply applying pressure to both ends of the cyl at the same time to increase cyl extention speed. The trade off is loss of force, as in my example above. Usually this is done at the control valve and requires human input to take the valve out of regent and place in normal hyd flow to gain back the force. Doug is taking a different approach to sort of automate the processes. By using the counter balance valve, he is reading pressure, presumably at the base end of the cyl, to change the direction of hyd flow and take the circuit out of regen mode and into normal mode. Sort of like your two stage pumps sense pressure and drops from high flow/low pressure to low flow/high pressure.

While I at first passed this off as unnecessary. I dont need that extra half sec of speed I would gain, since I split longer wood than most and I only have a inch or two before the pusher strikes the round to be split. How much time could I really save and its adds another human function to the process. Then I got to thinking, While I only need the speed for the sec it takes to hit the wood, I only need the force for a sec or two to split the wood. Maybe the 5ton would be more than enough to finish pushing the wood thru the wedge. Regen started making more sense. With Dougs proposed setup, the cyl would be in regen until a load is sensed at what ever preset pressure he choose, at which time the valve would shift out of regen into full force splitting mode. As soon as the pressure requirement dropped below the preset level, it would go back into regen and speed up the splitter. That 4in cyl in my example could go from a 13sec cyl time to a 7 or 8 sec cycle time. (@10gpm)

Where I think it would benefit me most would be using the 32in stroke cyls on my wood processor. I wont be splitting a lot of 32in long firewood, so I might be wasting half a stroke on every round. Since I am going to be pumping 75gpm to my cyl, dont know where I am going to find the valves to make it work with regen, but Its something I am now keeping a eye out for.
 
Many years ago, the LicketySplitter did this. I used one for a long time as a teenager and never figured out just how it worked. It had a pressure sensing valve for the run out and garage door size springs to return the single acting cylinder. The valve would change from low to high force and back again as needed, it was very fast.
 
It does make a difference with longer and bigger diameter cylinders. I am using 32 x 4.5". Sun Hydraulics does have a valve body that does the regen. But could not find the valve body on ebay. New was like $1200 or more. So I printed the schematic and found each part on ebay for way less. This advanced approach to regeneration with a counter balance valve will provide full tonnage when needed. With a sequence valve I was loosing 500 - 600 psi. So I was loosing tonnage with the sequence valve. But with a 3600 psi pump I was still pushing 3000 psi. With basic regenerative you do loose your tonnage.

Since I got a used Hahn processor I have been bucking all the wood to 15 3/4 inches. I either have to put two rounds on the table or waist half the stroke of the cylinder. The Hahn also uses regeneration but is only good for smaller fresh green wood. Fresh wood splits easier. Some of my logs have been sitting in the pile for two years. Some are as hard as concrete.





Rounds are all about the same length. Except for the ends of the logs.

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I would just guess the 5-600psi pressure loss with the sequence valve probably has to do with the cracking pressure of the valve. Really, there isnt any real difference between a sequence valve and a counter balance valve. Its mostly location and orentation.

I havent researched the cartrage valves like you are using, so I am trying to figure out, how you are dealing with the changing direction of flow. I see the check valves in your schematic. It hasnt clicked in my mind just yet what you are doing, but I understand the concept.
What has me confused, and I'll screw this up trying to explain it, Using the autocycle valve, you have to be getting the pressure to your regen off the a or b port of the autocycle valve. Then it has to flow to your seperate regen valve which would supply pressure to both the a and b ports of the cyl. Where are you installing the CB valve. I would think it would have to be inline between the regen valve and the rod end port of the cyl. The cb valve would have to sense pressure at the base port of the cyl. With pressure sensed, the CB valve would dump either back to ACV thur the the port that would normally retract the cyl. What confuses me is when the cv is used to retract the cyl, how are you preventing it from back feeding thru the CB valve to the base end of the cyl. What I havent figured out is where you are putting the CheckV to keep this from happening. Putting a check between the regen and the CB valves would prevent the regen from working and not having a check would allow retracton fluid to reach the base end. Probably some little someting I aint seeing. Sometimes, I have to draw it out myself before I understand it.
 
There is a check valve in the counter balance valve to allow fluid to the return port of cylinder.

Then between the return and base of the cylinder is a pilot to stop check valve. It closes when returning the cylinder. The counter balance valve acts as a adjustable pressure release for the oil coming out cylinder during extension of the cylinder. But it is bases on the pressure going into the cylinder.




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