Brian72
ArboristSite Guru
Another thing Mike, go with .063 gauge bar and chain. It oils better.
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Alaskan mill
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Diy mechanic mike
ArboristSite Operative
Gotchya so I'm thinking I'm gonna go with the granberg 48" mill. I have done a bit of research and from my info it seems that the 661 shouldn't be used with anything bigger then 48" and that's already pushing the limits. I want this saw to last me a while for the tree business as well as free-time milling, so anything bigger then 48" for chainsaw milling should be double power head milled which I dont see myself milling anything bigger then 48". Hell that's a sheet of plywood Haha. But since I'm getting into the tree business how big of a bar could I put on the 661 for just falling a tree cuz that's way less torque needy
You aren't going to be able to mill a 48" wide piece with a 48" mill and bar. Probably figure in the neighborhood of 42" with a 48" mill.
There are a couple things you can do to get a little more width of cut from your mill, such as drilling through the center of the nose sprocket and bolting rather than clamping the nose end of the mill, you can also remove the Bucking Dawgs.
If you just want to use the saw as normally configured, and the mill as it came stock, you can usually figure your max milling width about 6-8" less than the mills "Stated" Size, the mills advertised "Size" is it's overall length assembled, not it's milling Capacity.
Doug
Diy mechanic mike
ArboristSite Operative
Ah icic, so if I went with the 56" mill, I could get a 48" wide slab, but I'd have to get a 56" bar to get it.?.?. Would my 661 be able to handle this size of bar and chain cutting a slab a decent length?
Brian72
ArboristSite Guru
I run my 50" running skip chain without any problems. I haven't run anything bigger than 36" for regular cutting. I think the limiting factor would be getting enough oil on long bars. The saw is plenty powerful.
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Depends on a few things to actual slabbing width - I've found that my Stihl Duromatic 36" and my GB 72" bar are that length from tip to halfway between the mounting studs, not actually that cutting length from tip of powerhead to tip of bar. Then of course you have to take the spikes off if you want max width, which is a slight bother if you plan on switching it back and forth between use as a felling saw and milling saw. But yeah, give yourself about 5 to 8" more bar width than width of slab you expect to get most of the time, depending on the setup. I swapped a 42" steel Alaskan mill for a 36" Granberg Alaskan mill to give myself flexibility of extending the rails on it and went ahead and bought a 60" set of rails from Granberg for my 72" GB bar. Haven't had cause to use the setup as I'm mostly milling mesquite that has run 28" at max so far so my 36" bar/mill does fine for most of my work and isn't too cumbersome. Running an 880 head so I have no worries on power on any bar. Just rigged up my old 045 Super (87cc) on a 32" bar and really liked the smoothness of it on 15" red oak. Will be using that setup and 3/8 chain for most of my smaller (sub-25") diameter hardwood now. Used it for awhile and then a 660 running a 42" bar with 3/8 chain in Mexico on 28-36" diameter guanacastle trees (kinda like monkeypod). It worked okay but it was my first days of milling and could have done a lot of things better, like kept after the sharpening way more. I have belatedly learned that I'm running my milling chains way too dull most of the time and constant sharpening makes all the difference in the world to what a saw can handle. I worked with a local in Mexico who did freehand milling with a 72 cc saw and he sharpened his chain so regularly that I was amazed how well it cut compared to our much bigger saws that I rarely sharpened while out in the field. I kept trying to figure out how we could get a setup when I was in Mexico to mill guanacastle up to 48" running the 660, and the most I ever thought was reasonable for it was a 50" Cannon and even had my doubts about that and never pulled the trigger. I bought the 880 once I moved to Texas and it was actually the saw I needed down in Mexico and the 660 is more what I need up here. Of course a huge part of it too is how hard the wood you're cutting is. Mesquite is insanely hard for a North American wood. I like the 880 for it but am happy with a lesser saw for red oak, rock elm, and ash. Safety is a consideration to at the long bar end of the range, most people don't want to take too much chance with 3/8 chain moving past 50", a number of people not comfortable with it much past 42". The big .404 .063 chain on the 880 gives you pretty good peace of mind. If you're mostly milling BIG trees, I feel like the 880 or 3120 is the way to go. My issue with getting a really wide mill and expensive bar and chain for a 660 was it never quite seemed worth investing in for only the occasional big tree if I wasn't going to custom mod the saw for max power (or know what I know now about sharpening). The 880 allowed me to skip everything in between and just buy a massive 72" bar to handle anything in the 36 to 60" range. The new hyperskip Oregon chain with a pair of cutters every 9" seemed like it would be great for reducing power needs for big bars and let you stretch the capabilities of a 660/661, but as it was designed for big Lucas Mills with giant .404 bars they only make it in .404 and so it's no use for the 661's. I bought it for both my 36" and 72" bars for the 880, but decided ultimately it makes little sense in as small a bar as 36" and normal skip would be better.
nighthunter
addicted to arboristsite
So would a long bar like for instance a 72" bar when mounted in the mill have the tendency to bow into the middle
Brian72
ArboristSite Guru
When I was looking at longer bars, I took a lot of advice from the West coast fallers. I can certainly see why Cannon bars are highly recommended by them. They are very solid with no flexing problems. I would think any of the reputable manufacturers would be fine.
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Not a Cannon or a GB Titanium bar, they're both beasts. Plus it's exceedingly rare you're ever running the spacing between clamps more than 48-54" wide unless you're milling redwoods.
nighthunter
addicted to arboristsite
Ok so my 48" stihl duromatic bar was the tendency to flex at the tip when on its side a sand throw a chain ,Would I have to get another bar for my 880
I'm not familiar with that particular bar, but I would give it a try before buying another bar.
The mill itself should help support the bar, and could very well prevent much of your flexing, Try before you buy a replacement
Bar flex would still be an issue in a smaller mill like the Granberg Small log mill, which only clamps the bar at the Thrust end, and not the nose, but only being advised for bars up to 24", bar flex SHOULDN'T be a Problem.
Doug
Expanding on all the good advice Husky Man gave, all the bars have some flex. You can't make steel completely rigid at that thickness over that length no matter how hardened it is. The Duromatic 48 should be plenty rigid enough bar in a milling setup, that's also a super heavy duty bar. There's a difference in flex dynamics - sorry, the engineer in me is coming out - of an unsupported bar (or only clamped at one end like in the powerhead) vs a mill clamped bar. My Dad pointed this out to be when I was building some shelving for my family and it was a long piece of wood that was going to bow with a lot of books on it and like a chainsaw mill there was no possibility of a middle support. He explained that if you have something just supported from the bottom at both ends like normal shelf brackets, the ends will flex up and the middle bow down. If you attach the shelf brackets from above, it limits how much the ends can flex up, thus reducing how much the middle can flex down. So when you have the bar clamped with pressure from the top side and bottom side in a rigid frame, it will limit the flex to fairly meaningless amounts.
Mike, are you using the Granberg EZ Rails for at least your first cut?, if you have the 5' EZ Rail set as well as the 9', I would suggest buying a 36" mill, AND just a 60" round handle and an extra end bracket.
A 36" mill sounds like it would be adequate for a lot, or even most of what you want to mill, it would be much more manageable, plus when you NEEDED a larger mill, you can use the 5' EZ Rails for the depth rails, and the 60" round handle and extra end bracket to convert your mill up to 60" when you need that much mill, you essentially get two mills for a little more cost than the smaller mill.
Grandberg has these parts readily available, I have ordered the parts myself, I just haven't needed to mill anything that large yet.
FWIW, you can thank SeMoTony for the tip on the 5' EZ Rails, he tipped me off to that trick.
Doug
George, I hadn't even considered the top clamping effect, makes sense, once it is mentioned, I was just thinking of the support of the nose end, without even thinking of the additional effect of the clamping,
Thank You, again I learned something New Today
This is why I Enjoy AS so much, Now if I could just stay out of the Pol/Rel section
Doug
Thank You, again I learned something New Today
This is why I Enjoy AS so much, Now if I could just stay out of the Pol/Rel section
Doug
Thanks Doug. I like the SeMoTony trick with the EZ rails, hadn't thought of that. I already have a ladder I'm happy with and already bought the 60" rails and round bar for my mill (which are still sitting in the box) so too late to do that but good to know. I can easily do things in reverse, build a short guide for stubby logs with those rails to make them dual purpose by just adding some cross bars to the rails, I bought the extra cross bar kit too so have all the cross pieces I need. Yeah, for awhile my Dad who is an engineer I think kinda despaired I never did anything professional with my engineering degree, but it's actually come in real handy as an outdoorsman in understanding how to build a better widget sometimes. Often can get there by trial and error and sheer inventiveness too, but I love understanding how things work. Have had to study up a bunch on how to estimate flex of different shapes and types of metal (angle, square tubing, etc) in building some sliding X-Y frames for my router in my shop so I can overhead router plane large slabs to level them. Obviously if the frame flexes at all, the router won't stay level. Picked up the overhead router planing from an Aussie big wave surfer and woodworker working koa and monkeypod slabs in Hawaii, interviewed in a surfing magazine, so ideas come from the most unexpected places. Ah, just saw you're in Mt Hood, never actually been to it yet, but all over Oregon otherwise. Love that state. Lived in Tahoe on and off for many years, which is mostly Douglas fir around the lake since they clearcut the pine back in the 1920's, and I remember going up to Oregon and hiking the forests there and thinking, holy crap, THESE are Douglas firs. Like two to three times the size.
Hi George, Mt Hood is Beautiful, We Love living here, well worth the 45 minute commute to work.
We do get some Big D Firs around here, I bought the 60" Bar, because I eventually want to build a new dining room table. Our current table is a 38"x 56" D Fir slab that is 4" thick, with the bark still on both edges, Really pretty table just not big enough. Getting into milling was kind of a Perfect Storm coming together, the Wife wants a Bigger table, we have been cutting bigger wood for firewood, and I was looking at getting a 395XP, then I saw Dave the "Chainsaw Guy" on ebay had the 3120XP PHO for $1399 + $89 shipping. I looked at our current table, and thought, "I think that I could do that", and the 3120XP at that price was too Good, so I got the 3120XP and a bunch of Granberg gear. When I decided to try milling, I figured no sticking my toe in the water, I did a Swan Dive off the High Board, ad got pretty much everything I thought that I might need, or even use36" and 48" mills, the and 2, 5',and 1, 9' EZ Rail sets plus the handle and bracket to use one of the EZ Rails as a 60" mill, the small log mill and the Mini Mill/edger, committed myself to doing it right, that really is the ONLY way to do some things isn't it?
I have 36", 44" and 60" bars for the 3120XP, really need a 50" to get the best utilization out of the 48" mill. I used the 48" mill with the 44" bar today without taking the Dawgs off the saw, and clamping the nose a conservative distance from the sprocket, I end up with a 35" max width, I COULD get about another 3" by taking the dawgs off, and I could move the clamp an inch closer to the sprocket, but I will just try the 44" B&C on the 36" mill, should be a pretty good fit. I made the same mistake as Mike, and Many others, figured a 36" mill, a 36" bar, right?
I'm still learning myself, but having Fun doing it, and trying to help others avoid my mistakes when I can
Doug
We do get some Big D Firs around here, I bought the 60" Bar, because I eventually want to build a new dining room table. Our current table is a 38"x 56" D Fir slab that is 4" thick, with the bark still on both edges, Really pretty table just not big enough. Getting into milling was kind of a Perfect Storm coming together, the Wife wants a Bigger table, we have been cutting bigger wood for firewood, and I was looking at getting a 395XP, then I saw Dave the "Chainsaw Guy" on ebay had the 3120XP PHO for $1399 + $89 shipping. I looked at our current table, and thought, "I think that I could do that", and the 3120XP at that price was too Good, so I got the 3120XP and a bunch of Granberg gear. When I decided to try milling, I figured no sticking my toe in the water, I did a Swan Dive off the High Board, ad got pretty much everything I thought that I might need, or even use
36" and 48" mills, the and 2, 5',and 1, 9' EZ Rail sets plus the handle and bracket to use one of the EZ Rails as a 60" mill, the small log mill and the Mini Mill/edger, committed myself to doing it right, that really is the ONLY way to do some things isn't it?I have 36", 44" and 60" bars for the 3120XP, really need a 50" to get the best utilization out of the 48" mill. I used the 48" mill with the 44" bar today without taking the Dawgs off the saw, and clamping the nose a conservative distance from the sprocket, I end up with a 35" max width, I COULD get about another 3" by taking the dawgs off, and I could move the clamp an inch closer to the sprocket, but I will just try the 44" B&C on the 36" mill, should be a pretty good fit. I made the same mistake as Mike, and Many others, figured a 36" mill, a 36" bar, right?
I'm still learning myself, but having Fun doing it, and trying to help others avoid my mistakes when I can
Doug
Yeah, I've got lots to learn yet but having fun myself as I go. Just finished milling and planing the red oak today I got from a tree service guy I made an arrangement with to call me when he downs any hardwoods around town. He cut it up too small to do too much in the way of tables with it, but plenty of good shelving, cutting board, etc, project pieces. He'll leave the logs longer in the future. Had to buy a metal detector wand to check the wood though after pulling some exterior nails from it and not knowing what might be hidden inside the wood. Hazards of urban "treecycling", is that trees from people's yards have had all kinds of nails and such stuck in them over time, you have to be careful. Really enjoying how much lighter my old 045 Super is to mill with for smaller logs, particularly when doing a lot of boards on short logs where I'm lifting it on and off the log repeatedly. It never worked well enough when I first milled with it to enjoy it much. Plus I was running a 42" bar on it. With the 32" bar and running good it's very similar to a 660. I'd really like to get a chance to try out the 72" bar one of these days though with the 880 on something substantial. Actually ordered the 880 new from a Stihl dealer in Mexico online last year (they call the model a 780 in Latin America though exact same saw), shipped it to a buddy down there who was driving up to Texas, and he brought it up. Between finding the cheapest price in Mexico on it, and the peso being at rock bottom, I think it cost me little more than $1000 brand new with a 36" Duromatic bar and chain. Had to have it at that price, couldn't believe it. Going to likely buy another small Granberg mill, second hand if I can, just so I can set up the 60" rails on it as its own mill and not have to switch everything out when I want to mill larger things. I should have just bought the complete 60" mill to start with, in hindsight. If you have the money at the time to invest in it, going all in like you did is the way to go. Saves you a lot of headache not having quite what you need half the time, which is how I started. The nice thing about having a 60-72" bar is while you tend to use it rarely, it lets you mill those trees that few others can, that one slab from them pays for your 3120 or 880 and then some.I'm still learning myself, but having Fun doing it, and trying to help others avoid my mistakes when I can
Just figured out something pretty basic which might make you want to look for another bar. A roller tip is going to be a lot smoother for milling. I thought the smoothness and high revs milling with my 045 were the 3/8 chain having less resistance but it was more about having a roller tip on the 32" bar vs my hardnose Duromatic 36" I've been using on the 880. I'd been having all kinds of chain stretch issues on the Duromatic bar even with .404 and had almost none with 3/8 on the roller tip bar. Plus I was running the chains too tight for a hardnose and working the saw way harder than I needed to. I was about to pull the trigger on a 47" Duromatic until I read a thread on hardnose vs roller tip, and thankfully didn't get it. Best I can tell, the only call for hardnose is for short bars for brush cutting and dirty work. Hardnose in a really big bar makes almost no sense.
nighthunter
addicted to arboristsite
I've never actually thought about it not having a roller tip would affect the smoothness of the cut,makes sense I suppose but when I do eventually get to mill, I'll be cleaning up the slabs on a router table before sanding so it might not be any more work to finish the slabs to a useable quality
I've milled about 40 logs with a 42" hardnose bar and didn't really notice any difference in finish when I started using a roller nose. I agree that chain tension adjusting is bit tricker but after a bit of practice its not that difficult to maintain a half decent tension. Apart from synchronisation between cutting and chain speed that leads to washboard effects, my experience is the primary factor that effects finish is the operator. The smoother and gentler the operator handles the mill the better the finish.
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