Does anyone know if ansi standards say anything about tying into a point that is too high for the climber to reach the ground using ddrt with the length of the rope, so they would have to spur down and re-tie in order to reach the ground.
ANSI standards question
- Thread starter jtc16
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Are you pruning with spikes on? Anyway,ANSI does say you will be tied in when ascending and descending. Use the proper length of rope.
Jeff
Jeff
If you care about ANSI standards, you are not climbing on spikes...
To the question, the only thing I see in Z133 is 8.1.14
"When an arborist is working at heights greater than one-half the length of the arborist climbing line, a stopper knot shall be tied int he end of the arborist climbing line to prevent pulling the line through the climbing hitch."
So, it sounds like it is acceptable to do that, per the standard. I think it sounds like a bad idea. If you need to get out quick, you are in quite the pickle.
To the question, the only thing I see in Z133 is 8.1.14
"When an arborist is working at heights greater than one-half the length of the arborist climbing line, a stopper knot shall be tied int he end of the arborist climbing line to prevent pulling the line through the climbing hitch."
So, it sounds like it is acceptable to do that, per the standard. I think it sounds like a bad idea. If you need to get out quick, you are in quite the pickle.
I had a tree service where climbed alone for 1 1/2 years. I had to go out of business and got rid of my equipment. I never used spikes if the tree or limb was not being removed and I always used the proper length of rope. I work for line clearance company now and was told that I shrugged off when I asked for a longer rope because I would have to un-tie and re-tie to come down. They only provide 120' lengths and my foreman told me that he would "inquire" about a longer rope, which I'm pretty sure means he's in no hurry to get one. I was just trying to figure out if I could find an ansi standard (which the company supposedly follows) proving that I need the rope to speed up the process of getting one. If the standard only says tied in while ascending and descending and to have a stopper knot I guess re-tying is technically not against policy. My foreman definitely wants us to spike up the tree to set a tie-in instead of using the big shot until we have a successful tie-in point (like I have always done), by "must be tied in while ascending and descending surely ansi means a climb line not tied in with a lanyard? I'm not trying to make too big of a fuss, just wanting a longer rope to be provided to me. And yeah, we definitely use spikes to trim at work.
Unfortunately spikes are common for utility clearance. They were getting ready to spike my neighbor's ash that I have been helping keep alive for 10+ years. We asked them not to. Those 2 guys packed up and left - I was betting to try again when neither of us were around, but the next day a different climber came and climbed spikeless.
I'm not sure this crew (Tree Core) even pretends to follow the Z133. Aside from spiking trees that didn't need spiked, they did a decent job with the pruning from what I have seen around town...
As for your situation - on one hand, you don't want to sound too needy as a new employee. On the other hand, if you are asking for another $50 in rope to be (and feel) a lot safer and they refuse, I'd start to wonder whether they've got your back when it really matters....
Regarding spiking prunes...that is a big worm hole. Here is what the ANSI A300 Part 1 8.2.2.2 says:
Climbing spurs shall not be used when entering and climbing trees for the purpose of pruning or other tree maintenance, except in situations where other means are impractical such as:
*Remote/rural utility rights-of-way;
*When branches are more than throw-line distance apart and there is no other means of climbing the tree;
*When outer bark is thick enough to prevent damage to teh inner bark or cambium; and,
*Emergency operations
That first bullet point I'm sure inspires a lot of creative interpretation. Is a tree in somebody's back yard, but 80' off of a road and sidewalk, but not accessible by a traditional bucket (but a compact lift could reach) "remote" or "rural"??? As I said, the tree was climbed and pruned by a competent climber without spikes...
I'm not sure this crew (Tree Core) even pretends to follow the Z133. Aside from spiking trees that didn't need spiked, they did a decent job with the pruning from what I have seen around town...
As for your situation - on one hand, you don't want to sound too needy as a new employee. On the other hand, if you are asking for another $50 in rope to be (and feel) a lot safer and they refuse, I'd start to wonder whether they've got your back when it really matters....
Regarding spiking prunes...that is a big worm hole. Here is what the ANSI A300 Part 1 8.2.2.2 says:
Climbing spurs shall not be used when entering and climbing trees for the purpose of pruning or other tree maintenance, except in situations where other means are impractical such as:
*Remote/rural utility rights-of-way;
*When branches are more than throw-line distance apart and there is no other means of climbing the tree;
*When outer bark is thick enough to prevent damage to teh inner bark or cambium; and,
*Emergency operations
That first bullet point I'm sure inspires a lot of creative interpretation. Is a tree in somebody's back yard, but 80' off of a road and sidewalk, but not accessible by a traditional bucket (but a compact lift could reach) "remote" or "rural"??? As I said, the tree was climbed and pruned by a competent climber without spikes...
If they’re anything like the company I work for they definitely pretend to follow standards. They want everything done as fast as possible and do not care about trees if they can get away with it, which they always will unless there is someone like you asking for a tree to not be spiked. I’m not sure what it means “unless branches are a throw line distance apart “? The standards say “unless there is no other means of climbing the tree” so my job definitely violates that, they want you to spike up from the ground up instead of “wasting” time setting a throw line. I shouldn’t say my job though but actually my specific general foreman, which is pretty wild because all the supervisors above him may hear me out on my way to do it but they know less about tree work and more about management. I’ll just work my way up in this company however I do until I find something better or start my own business again. I don’t want to say the name of the company but they are one of the biggest in the company and it would probably cause a lot of problems if they were actually called out on all of their lack of knowledge, training, and hiring of people who don’t know a lot. In the mean time I’ll be spiking as little as possible while trying not to lose my job.
I worked for a small local company that would only supply 120' ropes. We often tie in above 60 feet around here though. They just said "its never been a problem before". This type of resistance to new levels of safety is common, I've found. It hasnt been a problem because noone has had to decscend quickly with an injury. . .
Anyways, eventually they agreed that I could buy a longer rope of the same kind they supply and they reimbursed me for 120' of it, lol.
Anyways, eventually they agreed that I could buy a longer rope of the same kind they supply and they reimbursed me for 120' of it, lol.
120’ does seem like a dangerous length for a climb line. Especially considering the lack of common sense these days.
One of my biggest problems with a 120’ line is if you need to tie into the other side of the tree for any distance, there goes your connection to the ground help because they can’t reach the rope anymore.
I do have a 120 that I keep for a second tie (150’ for primary tie) in on taller trees now. They’re real handy for that.
One of my biggest problems with a 120’ line is if you need to tie into the other side of the tree for any distance, there goes your connection to the ground help because they can’t reach the rope anymore.
I do have a 120 that I keep for a second tie (150’ for primary tie) in on taller trees now. They’re real handy for that.
Suggest a 600' spool and make your length's you need, that alone saves you money, buying a 120' cost more in the long run,
Jeff,
Suggest a 600' spool and make your length's you need, that alone saves you money, buying a 120' cost more in the long run,
Jeff,
I think thats the problem in the first place, stingy owners would rather cut 5 120 footers than four 150 footers off of a 600' spool.
LOL!! Good point! I’m pretty sure that’s the origin of this whole 120 foot climbing line deal in a nutshell.
I keep a 100 and 150 in the truck. Use the 100 a bunch. No need to haul extra rope around when it is not needed. But certainly glad to have the 150 in taller trees!
I'm a business owner. The cost of a rope is such a minor thing I don't know what the hangup is. I use a 120' rope for climbing because I don't want to coil 150' all the time. A guy using a rope bag this isn't an issue. Now wanting a new chainsaw because the one you'e using is dull, well that's a different issue.
Richard Magargal
Treebiz
Richard Magargal
Treebiz
Hi Jeff, I do have the dog, but enlighten me as to how I know you. Are you living in southern Nevada now. I'm not sure if I can leave my phone number for you but I will try 619.261.4346 also I believe my email is available.Good to see you here, Rich!,,,Do you still have your little dog?
Jeff,
I agree 100%...but I don't see where this is required in the Z133.
