Any one ride the pick down?

[beastmaster]

I have this job coming up to remove these dead hazardous Euc's. Today we removed one that fell over. It had no roots at all. Its a safe bet none of the other ones do either. The bases are full of conks and their toasty dead. There is a big Koi pond behind them(biggest I've ever seen)and in front a block wall fence. The biggest one is maybe 75 feet with back lean and most the weight towards the koi pond.
No way I'd climb these. The Company I'm doing this for has a KB crane, and we talking about getting a bigger crane to come in. I don't want to be in those trees tied in. I want to just hang from the KB crane and piece them out. The other option is to cut a piece and ride down with it. I've never done this before and not sure how to go about it. Do you wait for the piece to be lifted than go with it after its off? Any one ever do this and could give me some pointers I'd appreciated it.
These trees are ready to fall over. If they weren't so dead I could maybe free fall them, but I'm sure any pulling on them could cause them to break off and fall any which way. I feel comfortable doing them while hanging from the crane and just chucking them down, Can't say for sure they wouldn't pull a part it lifted. Have to play that by ear. But I am interested in how to ride a piece down. I don't want to use two cranes in case the tree did fall over a boom might get hit(the KB is only 70 feet and would have to be pretty close.)
Thanks for any input.

View attachment 273167View attachment 273168View attachment 273169View attachment 273170 Some logs from the one that fell over two dayView attachment 273171

 

[adronetree]

I have this job coming up to remove these dead hazardous Euc's. Today we removed one that fell over. It had no roots at all. Its a safe bet none of the other ones do either. The bases are full of conks and their toasty dead. There is a big Koi pond behind them(biggest I've ever seen)and in front a block wall fence. The biggest one is maybe 75 feet with back lean and most the weight towards the koi pond.
No way I'd climb these. The Company I'm doing this for has a KB crane, and we talking about getting a bigger crane to come in. I don't want to be in those trees tied in. I want to just hang from the KB crane and piece them out. The other option is to cut a piece and ride down with it. I've never done this before and not sure how to go about it. Do you wait for the piece to be lifted than go with it after its off? Any one ever do this and could give me some pointers I'd appreciated it.
These trees are ready to fall over. If they weren't so dead I could maybe free fall them, but I'm sure any pulling on them could cause them to break off and fall any which way. I feel comfortable doing them while hanging from the crane and just chucking them down, Can't say for sure they wouldn't pull a part it lifted. Have to play that by ear. But I am interested in how to ride a piece down. I don't want to use two cranes in case the tree did fall over a boom might get hit(the KB is only 70 feet and would have to be pretty close.)
Thanks for any input.

View attachment 273167View attachment 273168View attachment 273169View attachment 273170 Some logs from the one that fell over two dayView attachment 273171

Sounds like you'd be better off riding the ball and chunking it down. I would avoid riding the pick down. It could work but generally not a good idea. Alot of things could happen even though they probably wouldn't. Sling could move, piece could flip, etc. etc. Bad positioning and bad tie in choices as well.
Can the company not borrow or rent a bucket or spider???? Whether you ride the ball or ride the piece god help you if OSHA happens to finally pull up on that one job.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

Looks like you need two cranes. One for you in a man basket, one for the pieces you rig down.

Seriously. It's the owner's fault for waiting so long, now the equipment cost is double what it would have been a few years earlier.

Alternative: the owner can wait for them to fall down and then make an insurance claim. I have talked to insurance adjusters on site, and they will not pay for hazard tree removal unless it is touching the home I suppose in this case, they might make an exception. Get the insurance adjuster there.

There is a guy in New Jersey (Mark Chisholm) who specializes in crane work; he gave a demo at an ISA conference in Tacoma, WA a few years ago. He said that for very dead or broken trees, that is what he has occasionally done -- two cranes. Here is something I found a job he did, removing a double tulip poplar that was 140 ft and burned partway through from a lightning strike. They actually used THREE cranes: one to lift off the crown, the second to hang him in the air to work, and a third smaller crane to take down the lower trunk once the tree could be climbed.

oops -- can't seem to paste in the web address here.

Just Google: Princeton tulip tree crane

that should do it; fourth hit down the list

 

[dbl612]

Looks like you need two cranes. One for you in a man basket, one for the pieces you rig down.

Seriously. It's the owner's fault for waiting so long, now the equipment cost is double what it would have been a few years earlier.

Alternative: the owner can wait for them to fall down and then make an insurance claim. I have talked to insurance adjusters on site, and they will not pay for hazard tree removal unless it is touching the home I suppose in this case, they might make an exception. Get the insurance adjuster there.

There is a guy in New Jersey (Mark Chisholm) who specializes in crane work; he gave a demo at an ISA conference in Tacoma, WA a few years ago. He said that for very dead or broken trees, that is what he has occasionally done -- two cranes. Here is something I found a job he did, removing a double tulip poplar that was 140 ft and burned partway through from a lightning strike. They actually used THREE cranes: one to lift off the crown, the second to hang him in the air to work, and a third smaller crane to take down the lower trunk once the tree could be climbed.

oops -- can't seem to paste in the web address here.

Just Google: Princeton tulip tree crane

that should do it; fourth hit down the list

we have worked with a couple of climbers experienced with crane removals doing trees as you have described. their procedure was to tie off above the ball, crane would hoist climber to pick point, he would set choker, rappel down to a conservative cut point, make the cut, crane holds load in position till climber descends to ground and is out of way, then crane moves load to landing zone. repeat as required for full removal. crane, rigging, climber's gear all rated, conservative weight cuts and load control essential. have also had climber stay with load till both could be moved to a safe lz for climber to descend (climbing line stays in rope bag with him till he descends). after climber descends, crane lands cut piece.

 

[ft. churchill]

I've got to chime in here. First off I have no arborist experience other than a few removals for friends and the widow at church. I feel outta place tellin' ya anything. My experience is is heavy construction and ironworking. You are never allowed to ride the load or the ball. The only place you can ride would be in a manbasket, while tied off. These sorts of rules are what I learned back in the '70's and are probably stricter now. Here are the reasons why..... OSHA and MSHA would shut you down and fine you, and the real reason is that when the crane cable is lifted the ball or the cable can spin as it accepts the load, throwing the rider off, or entangling him in the cable. That ridin' the load or ball stuff happened back in the early thirties and in Popeye cartoons from the same era.
Those eucalyptus are dicey at best. Be safe out there.

 

[treeclimber101]

yuppppppp. Trees are a whole new set of rules though .

 

[Blakesmaster]

Beast, I've done what you're thinking a few times in dicey trees. Sometimes it's the only safe option. I keep my climbline above the ball and don't lanyard into the tree for obvious reasons. Cut at your hip ( below your friction hitch ) in case you were to catch your line. Positioning is difficult but an experienced hand like yours will do just fine. Once the piece is cut and the crane has the load, drop down so you're beneath the work, if you can descend safely to the ground, do so, if not, ride with the piece to a safe landing zone. Watch for dead stuff coming at your head and take care to balance the piece correctly so it doesn't flip. As dbl said, conservative pieces.

If an Osha inspector stops, cross your fingers that he's not a prick and it's a good idea to have a documented job plan detailing how and WHY you are doing it the way you are. Keep a copy of ansi regs handy as well.

 

[dbl612]

I've got to chime in here. First off I have no arborist experience other than a few removals for friends and the widow at church. I feel outta place tellin' ya anything. My experience is is heavy construction and ironworking. You are never allowed to ride the load or the ball. The only place you can ride would be in a manbasket, while tied off. These sorts of rules are what I learned back in the '70's and are probably stricter now. Here are the reasons why..... OSHA and MSHA would shut you down and fine you, and the real reason is that when the crane cable is lifted the ball or the cable can spin as it accepts the load, throwing the rider off, or entangling him in the cable. That ridin' the load or ball stuff happened back in the early thirties and in Popeye cartoons from the same era.
Those eucalyptus are dicey at best. Be safe out there.

you are correct in what you have said. however ansi has set the rules for tree work, which has been covered at length in this forum. treework does not equate to ironworking and construction. thank you.

 

[treeclimber101]

you are correct in what you have said. however ansi has set the rules for tree work, which has been covered at length in this forum. treework does not equate to ironworking and construction. thank you.

The only reason it doesn't is because most guys don't ever get seen or caught doing that #### , ie. , if tree work was scrutinized like ironwork or other more metropoltian kinda crane work , I guarantee you would not be anywhere near the hook , Becket , ball any of it with a rope , maybe , just maybe you could work off the boom . But I doubt that too . Your option would be work from the tree or a high reach

 

[dbl612]

The only reason it doesn't is because most guys don't ever get seen or caught doing that #### , ie. , if tree work was scrutinized like ironwork or other more metropoltian kinda crane work , I guarantee you would not be anywhere near the hook , Becket , ball any of it with a rope , maybe , just maybe you could work off the boom . But I doubt that too . Your option would be work from the tree or a high reach

i'm sure given the option, 99 out of 100 crane ops would chose hanging iron over tree work. know weights, generally lifted from ground, known load dynamics, and generally working with people that work with a crane every day of the week, instead of infrequent use of cranes that causes learning curve activity for all involved (=unforseen problems). hanging iron=hoist the piece into place, bolt it up, cut the crane loose, pick another etc. etc. etc.

 

[treeclimber101]

i'm sure given the option, 99 out of 100 crane ops would chose hanging iron over tree work. know weights, generally lifted from ground, known load dynamics, and generally working with people that work with a crane every day of the week, instead of infrequent use of cranes that causes learning curve activity for all involved (=unforseen problems). hanging iron=hoist the piece into place, bolt it up, cut the crane loose, pick another etc. etc. etc.

It's a production kinda game , you have a piece count that a normal 2 connectors , 2 hooks a oiler and operator and the foreman , and sometimes a signalmen pretty crazy though , we did the eagles stadium and our piece count was like 150 pieces a day , granted it was all light columns and beams doing people walks but we hustled and I never went home feeling like I didn't get my ass kicked LOL

 

[treeclimber101]

We jumped on the ball once and got dipped in the Delaware river , we all got our money , including the operator , that was the last time I ever rode the crane , after that it seemed like times changed over night . My father in law who still works says that in his day , after lunch the entire gang would ride the load , meaning a beam or a column back to work! If that happened today I think they would shut the whole job down .alot of guys don't know this but OSHA can't just walk on your job , they have to be invited ! I mean they were instituted to make regulations for the safety of the worker , not to make there life harder but safer .

 

[jefflovstrom]

Anyway, I would go with a KB for a TIP.
Jeff

 

[Toddppm]

TCI Magazine November 2012 Just read about riding the pick here. He's got a presentation too so the whole thing with more info is probably online somewhere.

 

[Slvrmple72]

We use a crane just about daily and fly to set chokers. I have roped taller trees through natty crotches and then set the choker on the piece from the bucket so we can crane it down to the chipper. I have not nor am I allowed to ride down the load. Dead **** is da wurst! Duck and cover! Stay safe and good luck Beast!

 

[justa buzzid]

Looks like you need two cranes. One for you in a man basket, one for the pieces you rig down.

Seriously. It's the owner's fault for waiting so long, now the equipment cost is double what it would have been a few years earlier.

Alternative: the owner can wait for them to fall down and then make an insurance claim. I have talked to insurance adjusters on site, and they will not pay for hazard tree removal unless it is touching the home I suppose in this case, they might make an exception. Get the insurance adjuster there.

There is a guy in New Jersey (Mark Chisholm) who specializes in crane work; he gave a demo at an ISA conference in Tacoma, WA a few years ago. He said that for very dead or broken trees, that is what he has occasionally done -- two cranes. Here is something I found a job he did, removing a double tulip poplar that was 140 ft and burned partway through from a lightning strike. They actually used THREE cranes: one to lift off the crown, the second to hang him in the air to work, and a third smaller crane to take down the lower trunk once the tree could be climbed.

oops -- can't seem to paste in the web address here.

Just Google: Princeton tulip tree crane

that should do it; fourth hit down the list

sounds like a GIANT waste of time and money.....

 

[justa buzzid]

we have worked with a couple of climbers experienced with crane removals doing trees as you have described. their procedure was to tie off above the ball, crane would hoist climber to pick point, he would set choker, rappel down to a conservative cut point, make the cut, crane holds load in position till climber descends to ground and is out of way, then crane moves load to landing zone. repeat as required for full removal. crane, rigging, climber's gear all rated, conservative weight cuts and load control essential. have also had climber stay with load till both could be moved to a safe lz for climber to descend (climbing line stays in rope bag with him till he descends). after climber descends, crane lands cut piece.

sounds like you and russell had a chat last time you guys worked together....

 

[beastmaster]

sounds like a GIANT waste of time and money.....

I like a challenge, and rarely walk on a job. I pride my self on being able to do the impossible if need be. With that being said am not suicidal. I will figure out a safe and effective solution. If that solution includes four cranes and a helicopter(just saying)so be it. It'll be reflected in the bid. If time and money is being wasted the job was under bidded.
Some trees seem to dangerous or difficult for the average Company to safely take down. That shows good sense. And on those trees no sane person would do, two things are important, You must think out side the box, and you have to bid high so no time is wasted or money lost. If it's not worth it to the customer, it's not worth my time and effort.
I know a Man who once got 50,000.00 for a removal of a big dead pine tree.(in the 1980's) No one else would do it. This guy thought out side the box, and did a tree that couldn't be done.
The Customer always has the option to not pay your price, that's fine to. But if he excepts your bid and you feel the need for special equipment there is no such thing as wasteing time and money to do the impossible or insanely hazardous.
That is how I feel anyway.

 

[justa buzzid]

i have the answer, man.

1 crane. 1 climber. 1 rope bag. 2 slings.

thanks!

 

[Tree Pig]

So what your saying is at about this point use the rope bag:wink: