Aspens: climbing and blowing out tops

[Westonfatty]

Hey Guys,

I learned to climb back east, in hard woods, big trees and good wood. Now I live in Utah and have rekindled my love of climbing trees, humping heavy loads and started my own business. I deal with so many Aspen's out here and wanted to hear your opinions. When I learned to climb I was taught that if the wood was as thick as my wrist it would support my weight. I just don't feel that way with Aspens... am I being a huge baby?!? These things are SKINNY, and tallish for the trunk. At 250lbs with gear I start to wimp when the going gets skinny.

My other related question is blowing out tops. Most of the time the tree is right next to a building, has no branches the first 20ft and then is all top. Because I don't feel comfortable going up super high I blow the top out a bit bigger than I would like. Any thoughts on how to efficiently solve this dilemma? Generally the trees around it are weak Aspens and are far taller than any other trees around. TIA

 

[Jim Timber]

Aspen isn't "bad" wood, but it's like pine strength wise, not representative of it's hardwood status. They won't support themselves when they hit 60yrs old and snap in the middle. I'm not sure how to best age them, so I just don't climb them anymore. I don't do it for a living, just on my own property and while hunting (self-climber tree stand). The clear trunks were attractive for the deer stand before I learned how suicidal those trees are.

 

[AGoodSteward]

Sure makes it easy when you can just break off branches instead of starting the saw though, doesn't it?

 

[Jim Timber]

Sure makes it easy when you can just break off branches instead of starting the saw though, doesn't it?

I don't know about that... They don't fight a Silky very hard though.

Aspen's an odd wood to me. It's soft and brittle when it's fresh, turns to punk within 20 minutes of soil contact (ok, so not quite that bad ), but if you actually let it dry or bury it without oxygen it's not half bad. They use it for swamp corduroy all the time (cheapest poles you can lay).

 

[ropensaddle]

If I knew they were suicidal, I might not have went up so high when i worked in Michigan Sometimes when I feel threatened with snapping I tie in below leave a bit of slack go on up. I know the shockload might be almost as bad as falling and might snap the rope anyway but fortunately i've never had failure. I do know now, I was a lucky with those aspens and cottonwood.

 

[Jim Timber]

I've got aspen that lost their tops that are bigger and smaller than aspen in the same vicinity that didn't fail under the same winds. So either they were stressed from a previous wind event or there's no rhyme or reason to what makes a tree ready to fail.

I had a meeting to discuss these trees with the county public lands manager regarding their management strategy vs Potlatch lumber companies management strategy on how long to let a stand grow before breakage losses overtake the growth gains in stem diameters. Potlatch is on a 40 yr cycle and the county is on 50. My stand is around 45 now, and I'm seeing regular breakage of the crowns in trees up to 16" DBH.

So if a 16" stem isn't safe to climb, what is? I kit out at around 250# (I'm 6'1, 220) which is a good percentage of what a section of laterals might weigh in any of my even-age stand trees. Is that enough to throw the balance? I have no desire to find out!

My area might be the odd duck situation, but we've had numerous near-miss tornados and straight line winds over 60mph in the past 3 years. 80% of my aspen are coming out as soon as the ground is hard this winter. Good riddance!

They're fine wood once dried though. Lots of log cabins have been made out of them for centuries. Get them 60' tall and it's like breaking a toothpick.

 

[Westonfatty]

Appreciate all the feed back! I am definitely going to approach aspens a bit differently after hearing some of your guys advice. Took down a tall dead one today and didn't take any chances, put a line up high and cranked with the come along. Felt nice to be on the ground! Cheers!

 

[Jim Timber]

Always feels good to get a tree you don't like on the ground safely! Feels good getting ones you had no worries about down too, but the ugly ones are sweeter. Congrats!

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

At your weight I would be REALLY scared to be in one of these damn things instead of just plain old scared like I normally am.


They don't get very big around here, sometimes you come across a big old one, but usually they are growing tall and skinny with heavy canopies supported by entire CRAP!

I say tall but relative to everything else. Even the not so tall ones are not so readily worked on or worked down.

The canopy limbs snap when you grab them, the trunk could snap if you start swinging real weight around, especially if there is a defect and the root systems are usually chopped up by mowers and barely hold the tree .

I firmly believe that ( as with every tree ) one of things that hold a tree upright is its own will to live. Its just that it seems these aspens have more will to live that others because it appears to be the only thing holding it up.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Appreciate all the feed back! I am definitely going to approach aspens a bit differently after hearing some of your guys advice. Took down a tall dead one today and didn't take any chances, put a line up high and cranked with the come along. Felt nice to be on the ground! Cheers!

Even that can be nasty, especially pulling a side or back leaner with weighted crown.

I still am not sure if they are stronger when they are dead or stronger when alive. Stronger? Well, stronger than kite string at least.

But you have to understand that while the top is dead, dry, hard and somewhat stable, that the water has sunk down in the trunk and has been rotting away in there, quickly, not like hardwood.

You have to check the root crown of any dead tree but these are get nasty fast.

The wood fibers are more like a sponge than grainy and layered like hardwoods. If you cut a healthy chunk and get it dry fast enough you might have something that resembles a block of wood. At that point its good to use in hand carving.

 

[Westonfatty]

But you have to understand that while the top is dead, dry, hard and somewhat stable, that the water has sunk down in the trunk and has been rotting away in there, quickly, not like hardwood.

Aspens are just such junk! I have done some drops in the wood collecting fire wood and been totally shocked where the (dead) tree did or didn't go. As the tree dies, the fiber of the wood gets rotten and works NOTHING like they should- total sponge junk. That is why I really like using a come along/vehicle/pulling to make it go in the right spot.

As for when they are green- so far....I have had alright luck. I find spiking them they feel solid, and branches that are over 3in are solid holds. I still don't trust them though.

Are you telling me that I need to cut down on my cheeseburger intake

 

[beastmaster]

I've never climbed an aspen tree. But you should keep in mind in any grove of tree the outside ones which are exposed to the elements will be stronger(reaction wood and all that) The interior trees can be pretty weak in comparison.
Im not a big fan of pull tests, but it might not be a bad idea if thought iffy

 

[Jim Timber]

I forgot to mention - when a mature aspen kills itself while leafed out, they make an excellent visual and physical barrier for deer and keep their leaves for at least the rest of that year. So they're not all bad.

I haven't found any rhyme or reason to which trees succumb to wind events at my place. I've got areas that have been cleared out next to dense patches (tall/naturally thinned out, so dense stem spacing) and they don't buckle, and then I've got individual trees tucked in with other species and they fail despite stronger trees surrounding them (shelter wood). That's why I label them suicidal. Some of them just want to die.

 

[Hddnis]

I don't push too high in an aspen, they scare me worse then others. I also try to never catch anything, get a drop zone and whittle them down a little bit at a time.

 

[Westonfatty]

Any body ever see this? I have never noticed it before. When I blocked down the wood I didn't see any cracks in the wood, seemingly just the bark.

 

[Timber1972]

I see that a lot of the time. It can be sketchy some of the time and other times is nothing at all. I try not to climb them if I can but do when I have to. So tough to read and know what has caused what to present different ways. I usually expect rot and find it.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[TheJollyLogger]

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/it-was-a-hell-of-a-ride.261576/

I'm a little prejudiced... lol

 

[Westonfatty]

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/it-was-a-hell-of-a-ride.261576/

I'm a little prejudiced... lol

Wow...speechless. Thank you so much for adding this; read all 9 pages of posts. That is, in my opinion, the definition of an accident. Ive done about a dozen Aspen's now and every time, they really make me double think what the hell I am doing. The small ones almost worry me less, shorter and at least they are younger (I guess?). Aspen wood can be strong and flexible in so many ways and so weak and brittle in other ways. Now I am just rambling, but it is damn confusing. Again, can't thank you enough for passing this along and hope your shoulder has made some headway a few years later. P.S. I torched my shoulder when I was younger and it took a very, very long time to be normal. In my opinion, one of, if not the WORST designed joints in the human body.

 

[beastmaster]

This is why doing trees is one of the most dangerous jobs. Other industies if you follow the rules, use safety equipment,etc the odds are in your favor. With trees its a crap shoot every time. Follow every procedure, yet some hidden defect can get you.
Thank God it wasn't worse. Every climber nightmare.