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Automatic Chain Sharpener - Under $300

Discussion in 'Chainsaw' started by Philbert, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. wcorey

    wcorey ArboristSite Guru

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    Yes, but if you’re educating people about a chain sharpener on a chainsaw forum, it might be good to get the terminology straight.
    Don’t want someone sticking the wrong dressing stick into a $100 cbn wheel...
     
  2. Hsullyc

    Hsullyc ArboristSite Lurker

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    I bought one of these and received it last week. It works well except when it ground the wrong way on a tooth for no apparent reason and ruined the tooth. Good thing I was standing there and could stop it from continuing. Hopefully this was a fluke and doesn't happen again. Now I need to get out and dull a couple chains and try it again.
     
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  3. Gun

    Gun ArboristSite Lurker

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    I think I misunderstood your initial question, as I noted afterwards, especially within the context of @Haywire Haywood asking his question. Just to clarify again regarding dressing, where I use "dressing" to mean reshaping a grinding wheel such that it serves the following two purposes of a) creating the correct grinding profile and b) revealing fresh abrasive material: our current wheels can be dressed, that is, it can be both reshaped and fresh abrasive material can be exposed.

    Of course, CBN wheels (like the ones we have in development) cannot be completely dressed without effectively destroying them by that two-part definition.

    However, technically
    you can "dress" a CBN wheel by only doing the second part b, exposing fresh abrasive material. This can be done without attempting to reshape the wheel or completely removing layers of CBN, e.g. using aluminum oxide to remove resin, which exposes fresh CBN. However, I've seen some people interchange this with "cleaning" as well. Whether one chooses to call this "dressing" or "cleaning" can be confusing.

    Our current wheels can technically be dressed/cleaned this way, but doesn't really need to be. Practically speaking, it will wear with use, thereby exposing new abrasive through use. As depth is set on the FP1000 per use, the grinding contact is maintained by this calibration.

    No matter the word choice, our current and our CBN wheel can both have fresh abrasive material exposed.

    Cleaning as I have seen it used means removing foreign crap off the wheel, e.g. removing tree sap from the wheel. Usually, this is done through the use of solvents. I cannot recommend solvents be used on our wheels, as how they may affect the wheels can cause damage to them.

    I'm still a bit unsure about which question you were asking, but I hope this clarifies the definitions I've been using. I understand there is room for confusion, but I hope this clarifies what I mean, particularly in regards to our products!


    That's an odd interaction with the proximity sensor. I wonder what would have triggered it? If you can, please gather as many details as you can about the instance, e.g. distance cutter was from the proximity sensor (the little blue button-like circle), cutter size, which number cut it was on in the loop, etc. It's the first I've heard of the machine doing this and would like to forward as much information to our engineer as possible.

    Also, thank you for your purchase! It's likely that I'll personally be calling you in a few weeks regarding your experience with the product in general, so if you do receive a call, please mention you're an ArboristSite member! Til then, please post any other thoughts you have on it here!
     
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  4. Hsullyc

    Hsullyc ArboristSite Lurker

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    It was the sixth or seventh cutter. It failed to index left and ground the wrong way on the cutter. I hope to dull some chains this week and will put it through the paces. I will get a couple photos when I get a min.
     
  5. wcorey

    wcorey ArboristSite Guru

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    Ok, assuming I haven't been getting answers because I haven't adequately clarified my questions, I'll try again with a bit more detail.


    As for the wheels that are currently sold with the machine;
    The two basic families of abrasive wheels (non CBN/ABN/diamond) that are typically sold for use on chain sharpeners are resinoid and vitrified.

    Resinoid wheels tend to cut cooler and therefore are capable of a more aggressive grind without overheating the cutters.
    The downside is that they're relatively soft so they wear rapidly and require more frequent dressing/re-profiling.
    Vitrified wheels are harder and wear well but tend to need a light touch as to avoid burning cutters, I'd assume this is the most likely one supplied here.

    Then there's also grit size, coarser cuts cooler/faster but finer leaves a nicer finish. The more common wheels seem to be a compromise between the two...

    So which is what comes on this machine?
    Why are they twice the money of other commonly available wheels?
    Is there something special about them like maybe they last substantially longer than the typical 'pink wheels' or whatever?
    Or is it just due to economy of scale?
    Or that's why the machine is relatively inexpensive and proprietary consumables are the profit center?



    I did a little reading and found that the (bonded/plated directly on metal, non dress-able) CBN wheels that I'm used to seeing offered for chain sharpeners are not the only thing out there.

    There is indeed another type that is actually CBN particles in a vitified (or alternatively resinoid?) matrix and can be dressed.
    For whatever reason I've never seen this type offered for use on chain sharpeners.
    Not sure how long these would last as compared to the type that's directly bonded to the metal wheel, which last for a long time, typically hundreds or even thousands of chains.

    The plated on type CBN cannot be re-profiled or as far as I know, be dressed at all to expose fresh abrasive material. They can be cleaned with a special purpose stick the remove foreign material that may get packed in between the abrasive grits.

    So any other hints as to just what is it you've got going in this department?
    Its 'dress-ability' would suggest something other than what's currently being offered in the industry like Dinasaw cyclone, Diamondwheelinc or whatever...
     
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  6. KiwiBro

    KiwiBro Hold my beer and film this...

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    If I'm not mistaken, some CBN/ABN wheels can be redone when they wear out. Not the same as simply re-profiling but re-coated to the same profile. Dinasaw wheels are like this - they do their own and can recoat them if need be and make whatever profile you want. Stay true, run cool.
     
  7. KiwiBro

    KiwiBro Hold my beer and film this...

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    Can you put the exact same chain through again, from the same start point and see if you get the same result?
     
  8. panolo

    panolo Seldom right...Always opinionated!

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    I jumped and bought one. Pretty much all my chains will fit in this machine. I've gotten pretty decent with the cheaper grinder but this would be nice on the longer loops.
     
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  9. Haywire Haywood

    Haywire Haywood Fiscal Conservative Social Retard

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    Will the sensor detect differences in tooth length, or will someone with a bunch of used chains have to make sure everything is uniform before feeding a chain to it?
     
  10. wcorey

    wcorey ArboristSite Guru

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    One other substrate material I forgot about, that could also account for the unusually high replacement cost of the supplied wheel, is ceramic...
    Though they seem typically to be blue in color for whatever reason, maybe just color coding.

    If it's not, that would be a good option...
     
  11. wcorey

    wcorey ArboristSite Guru

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    Until they are all an even length, you will have to start with setting to the longest cutter and go all the way through the chain, then setting the next cycle to the next longest cutters, etc.

    I'd assume failing to do this would result in cooking the longer cutters...
     
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  12. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    Please post your comments, impressions, recommendations, etc. in this thread as you start to use it.

    I received a demo unit yesterday, and still going through it a bit. I need to make a base for it before I can use it (and I have a few other things going on, so it might take some time). But I hope to post some initial comments soon.

    Philbert
     
  13. wcorey

    wcorey ArboristSite Guru

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    I can't help wondering about the possibility of modding this thing to do .058/.063.
    It's right on the price threshold were I want to buy one just to play with it.

    Is there an IPL available yet?
     
  14. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    The user determines the cutter length, just as with manual grinders. As with manual grinders, all cutters should end up uniform in length. As @wcorey suggests, this may be best done in a few passes if the cutter lengths are all over the place.

    Philbert
     
  15. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    See attached from User's Manual. There are no part names / descriptions provided.

    The depth gauge width groove appears to be integral to the cast aluminum (?) housing / case.

    EDIT: I was able to slide stacked feeler gauges up to 0.061" around most of this groove: it was snug, and too tight at one spot to pass. So, someone with patience, and abrasive cloth, might be able to open up this groove enough for a 0.063 gauge chain to physically pass. It would be up to @Gun to comment if this would cause any other issues with this product.

    Philbert
     

    Attached Files:

  16. wcorey

    wcorey ArboristSite Guru

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    Thanks for the IPL Philbert.
    Looks easy enough to disassemble the chain carrier area.

    Appears that the gap the chain rides in is fixed and a flat, pivoting arm is the hold down.

    I wonder why the gap is so close to being .063 capable but not quite there, looks like the hold down arm could easily be made to have enough travel to cover that small of a range of movement.
    If it isn't already.
    Will an 063 drive link slide through just the hold down area?

    I'm guessing from what I can see that a motor (part # 40) turns or cams in a screw shaft (part 41) to push directly on the hold down arm (part 26).
    If it only goes a set distance falling short of the required range, I could envision shortening that screw a tiny bit to open the gap some
    and then adding a screw threaded into the hold down arm there so to make the gap adjustable.
    Could possibly be externally accessible through a hole put in the side cover.

    If .043 isn't a requirement at all then maybe the adjustability part isn't even needed.

    Open up the chain track a little and voila! .043 to .063 capability...
    Probably not quite that simple but certainly has possibilities.

    Total conjecture of course, won't know much unless I get my hands on one. Don't worry, I won't put myself on the list for the loaner, lol...
    Now I'm even more tempted to pick one up... Like I need to add another sharpener to the collection.

    If/when it's convenient to check, I'm curious what's the wheel diameter and arbor size.
     
  17. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    I can't tell if opening up the slot / groove might make it unstable for grinding the 0.043 gauge chains? It is very close. An adjustable groove might be best. Or shims for different gauges?

    Grinding wheel: >>>3.145" OD, 0.630" ID, 0.14" thick
    Depth Gauge wheel: 3.295" OD, 0.630" ID, 0.20" thick

    Disclaimer: that's based on my skill with a caliper!

    Philbert
     
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  18. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    Received a demo unit yesterday, and will start posting some of my comments / impressions.

    General
    Automatic chain grinders have been around for a while: Franzen, Markusson, Oregon DynaSaw, and Logosol all sell versions targeted toward commercial users, and costing thousands of dollars. The availability of one under $500 signals a new class of sharpening product and is noteworthy for that itself.

    Some initial impressions for specifications and discussion:

    PROS
    Under $300 price (temporary?). This is priced in same range as many conventional, 'standard' chain grinders.

    Compact size. Portable

    Runs on multiple power sources:120VAC, 12VDC (might vary with market)

    'Automatic' operation (once set up)

    CONS
    No (current) support of common .058 or .063 gauges

    Not (currently) compatible with skip tooth sequences, or extra tie straps in a loop.

    Uses proprietary wheels

    Limited chain angle customization compared to 'some' other methods (hook, etc.)

    GENERAL
    Just because it does not do all chains, it may do the chains you need

    Due to its novelty, it will appeal to technology guys - the ones first on their block to have a drone or Go-Pro camera, as well as guys who do not like to file / sharpen and are satisfied with a basic edge.

    Philbert
     
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  19. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    First Impressions

    Received the demo unit yesterday: very good first impression. It was double boxed for shipping, with die-cut, closed cell foam packaging.

    IMG_2962.jpg

    The sharpener itself looks well finished and appears to be a quality product. The main housing appears to be an aluminum (?) casting with plastic guards. It is roughly about the size of a loaf of bread.

    IMG_2972.jpg

    It comes with LOTS of parts! 5 power accessories; 3 hex key wrenches; 2 grinding wheels (sharpening wheel comes installed); 2 wheel wrenches; a chain weight; a wheel alignment indicator; a depth gauge measuring tool; a feeler gauge; mounting screws; and a user's manual. If I was going to keep this grinder I would find or make up some type of pouches to keep the power cords together, and the small tools together, so that they do not get lost.

    IMG_2967.jpg

    The manual is pretty clearly written, but technical. If you are not into reading, you might have some trouble with this. Watching the YouTube videos really helps. Hopefully, TEMCo will have the manual up on their website to download. They should also make the user videos available for downloading, in case someone wants to view / refer to them later, and has limited Internet access. I may make some editing suggestions and pass them on directly to Gun, as they do not really pertain to this thread.

    IMG_2969.jpg

    I need to make a base for this (to clamp down to temporary work surfaces), and review the videos, before I try running any chains, so it may take me a few days.

    Philbert
     
  20. sixonetonoffun

    sixonetonoffun Addicted to ArboristSite

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    One of my favorite toasting breads!
     

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