Barber chair waiting to happen, how to play it safe

[Oldtoolsnewproblems]

So I've got a tree with two trunks that's ready to come down. One side is healthier than the other, but they're both dying. The one with massive lean is going in a safe direction BUT has a very large branch that will wrap around a pine about 30-40 ft up. They rub when it's windy you can see in the picture. That trunk has rot in the heartwood and it's the one I'm worried about. My plan was to fell it first as the second trunk would provide me a little protection as I left it out of there. However to do that I'll need to take that branch off, both to avoid hang up, and in the hope that losing the weight will make it less likely to barber chair. Like I said it can fall anywhere in 90deg of it's lean and not hit anything I'm worried about, so I don't need to control it. I'm comfortable on ropes, just doing it in a tree context will be new to me. I have a 40ft later, and I figured I'll get it in the pine next to it, tie off above and take the limb off from there. Worst case I do it sitting in a seat and harness, but preferably from the ladder. I can descend the rope if needed, this much I know how to do and have done many times before.
My biggest fear is what happens when I make the face cut. Should I make it more or less deep than typical, if we assume the center of the tree is mostly cheese?
If it's not obvious, is the trunk on the left. My whole yard is a hill in 3 different directions, so lean looks both better and worse than it is

 

[Oldtoolsnewproblems]

Oh whoops, not quite the right photo, here you can see the lean a bit better. Your can see where the more verticals of the two trunks lost a branch over the winter, that was what clued me into the fact that the tree was sad.

 

[Gamma Woods]

I'm no expert, but I will pretend to be one until a real pro corrects me.

I'd say you want to keep the hinge in some good meat, as deep as you can without hitting the rot. Then bore cut and zip out the back to avoid a barberchair.

As far as climbing and what limbs to knock off first, my advice would likely be incorrect and dangerous.

 

[lone wolf]

So I've got a tree with two trunks that's ready to come down. One side is healthier than the other, but they're both dying. The one with massive lean is going in a safe direction BUT has a very large branch that will wrap around a pine about 30-40 ft up. They rub when it's windy you can see in the picture. That trunk has rot in the heartwood and it's the one I'm worried about. My plan was to fell it first as the second trunk would provide me a little protection as I left it out of there. However to do that I'll need to take that branch off, both to avoid hang up, and in the hope that losing the weight will make it less likely to barber chair. Like I said it can fall anywhere in 90deg of it's lean and not hit anything I'm worried about, so I don't need to control it. I'm comfortable on ropes, just doing it in a tree context will be new to me. I have a 40ft later, and I figured I'll get it in the pine next to it, tie off above and take the limb off from there. Worst case I do it sitting in a seat and harness, but preferably from the ladder. I can descend the rope if needed, this much I know how to do and have done many times before.
My biggest fear is what happens when I make the face cut. Should I make it more or less deep than typical, if we assume the center of the tree is mostly cheese?
If it's not obvious, is the trunk on the left. My whole yard is a hill in 3 different directions, so lean looks both better and worse than it is

Stay off the damn ladder!

 

[old CB]

Everyone warns about the dangers of running a saw. I'm way more wary of ladders--damn things probably cause more injuries than saws.

Hard to comment on your tree without being there. Until you cut into it you probably don't know how sound or unsound the wood is.

One thing about face cuts, most people cut a bigger face than necessary. You only need to go in far enough to ensure that the holding wood behind (the length of your hinge across the stump) will be 80% of the diameter. Usually that's not far.

 

[lone wolf]

Everyone warns about the dangers of running a saw. I'm way more wary of ladders--damn things probably cause more injuries than saws.

Hard to comment on your tree without being there. Until you cut into it you probably don't know how sound or unsound the wood is.

One thing about face cuts, most people cut a bigger face than necessary. You only need to go in far enough to ensure that the holding wood behind (the length of your hinge across the stump) will be 80% of the diameter. Usually that's not far.

Like this ? Go to 14 min mark.

 

[Oldtoolsnewproblems]

For sure a ladder in a tree, esp a 40ft aluminum is definitely not for the first of heart, but I've never used spikes before and don't want to learn on a hard job like this one. Plan is to lash the ladder to the pine tree that I'm NOT cutting as soon it's up, then put my ropes up above me. I got enough climbing rope to make it to the ground if needed for some reason. Then I can keep the pine between me and that branch your can probably see in the photo as I drop it. This also let's me stay above the branch

 

[jefflovstrom]

I would climb it and piece it out. Heartwood rot is less important than the cambium strength. We have done many trees that were actually hollow and had no problem. Yeah, I would climb it and piece it out.
Jeff
It was a beautiful day!

 

[CacaoBoy]

Stay off the damn ladder!

You mean like

 

[old CB]

CacaoBoy--see, that's what I mean. Too deep of a face cut.

 

[ATH]

Like this ? Go to 14 min mark.

Buy that man a wedge!

 

[Ol' Brian]

Like this ? Go to 14 min mark.

I watched that video, and couldn't believe it... that tree with that HUGE face cut is a bomb waiting to go off, and they were both just walking around it like "derp deee derp deee derp"... But then again, Buckin' is about a half bubble off I think, LOL.

 

[old CB]

Actually, what billy ray was doing is known as "sawing lean into the tree." A tall straight conifer is often quite well balanced--the reason we have to pound wedges to force them over.

But if that thing is perfectly balanced and you locate the holding wood way back in one side, the weight of the tree brings it over. Billy Ray is no fool.

 

[Ol' Brian]

Actually, what billy ray was doing is known as "sawing lean into the tree." A tall straight conifer is often quite well balanced--the reason we have to pound wedges to force them over.

But if that thing is perfectly balanced and you locate the holding wood way back in one side, the weight of the tree brings it over. Billy Ray is no fool.

I understand the physics of it... but that's a lot of stress on that tiny little bit of holding wood... a little wind gust, or anything could have made that thing get out of control. My only concern was how he was letting his inexperienced camera operator (the homeowner) be right up against that tree filming for him. It all worked out obviously. Buckin' knew that if that thing even made a sound to get out of there, but no way would I have let anyone else be anywhere within the fall of that tree once that face cut was started. Not questioning his knowledge or skill in falling trees, but rather his judgement. That's all I'm saying.

 

[old CB]

I think he probably saw the tiniest bit of lean in that tree before he began. Because the thing about what he did--if you get it wrong it'll go the opposite direction and there's nothing you can do to save it.

So maybe he saw something the camera couldn't.

 

[Ol' Brian]

I think he probably saw the tiniest bit of lean in that tree before he began. Because the thing about what he did--if you get it wrong it'll go the opposite direction and there's nothing you can do to save it.

So maybe he saw something the camera couldn't.

Could be. He even said in the video he almost didn't show it because of how dangerous this was. But just a rogue wind gust, just a little one... was all it would have taken to make that tree go in any direction the wind blew while they were standing there admiring that 90% face cut.

 

[old CB]

But the fact that he did it--he knows his country and his weather--if there'd been a chance of gust he probably wouldn't have chanced it.

The other clue too, when he was cutting his face notice how he was looking up all the while. What he was seeing was the tree tilt ever so slightly in his favor as he cut the guts out.

But your instinct is quite correct. If you don't know exactly what you're doing and how it will turn out, that sort of show-boating is a recipe for trouble.

I watched Billy Ray for a bit early on--he's quite the character, and was born for the You-tube age--but lost interest pretty quick. Nonetheless, he's a good operator.

 

[ATH]

I think he probably saw the tiniest bit of lean in that tree before he began. Because the thing about what he did--if you get it wrong it'll go the opposite direction and there's nothing you can do to save it.

So maybe he saw something the camera couldn't.

That is what a wedge is for. With a plunge cut, it is set before the tree has the opportunity to go the wrong way. It is cheapest insurance we can buy.

 

[old CB]

Jeez, the memories come flooding in.

I had a rent house once and I was removing a tree in the yard. (We owned this place just briefly.) The renter was an old codger who was sitting on the porch watching me work. Then we visited when I took a break.

He said he once had to remove a large, heavy limb from a tree. He had a ladder up against the limb and was cutting beyond where his ladder rested so he thought he was good. When the cut end of his limb dropped, the inner limb rose up (freed of all that weight), and sent him and his ladder earthward. "Doctors said I was lucky to be alive and I'd never walk again. But here I am."

F-ing ladders.

 

[Ol' Brian]

I agree. The world needs a lot more of his message, and positivity, and enthusiasm. He has even had an effect on me for the better I believe. But, that camera should have been on a tripod. A gust could have pushed that tree, caused it to twist/spin on the stump, or just go in any direction. And there's ALWAYS a chance for a gust. ALWAYS. I'm an airline pilot... I live in the wind. I know this is true.

We've all "done what we need to do" to get the job done, and I'm not knocking him at all for that. Not a bit. He knew exactly what he was doing, and how to make it work. Obviously. But, there are still things that are not under his control, (the wind), and that could have made it ugly. He didn't account for that. They got lucky. I'm definitely NOT a Safety Nazi, but even I wouldn't have allowed the homeowner to be right there with the camera lens in that face cut. That's all I'm saying.

It definitely made a cool video to see it work out and how he ended up dropping that tree right where he wanted it. Like I said, there's no denying Buckin's skills and knowledge.