Becoming an Arborist, Albany, NY

[I'llbearealclimberoneday]

One thing that stood out to me in the Tree Climbers Companion, was Brion Toss suggesting a 6 foot piece of rope to practice tying knots on the go... what would be the best kind/type of rope to buy a length of for this? I used to know many knots but i definitely wanna learn more and remember what i used to know. Can't practice enough!

I'd say 6' is good for learning knots, and a good start, but not quite enough for learning to use ropes. If that makes any sense.
Before I had any training, I learned the basic workings of DRT with 2 carbiners and a 50' piece of 1/2" climbing line sitting in my office chair. Hardware store rope is going to be much softer or not have the same core support that a climbing or rigging line has, making it harder to untie some knots and making friction hitches bind up worse. I made a loop with fish knots that simulated a harness. It had a figure 8 knot in the front to act as a bridge ring and a butterfly knot on both sides where the side "D's" would be, just that piece was probably 10'. I cut another section for a split tail hitch. I'd flip the rope through the door handle and tie in as if it were a real tree. Starting that way allows a lot of practice without having to wait on gear purchases.
If you know how the system works first hand, the first time you put a harness on and get your first climb, it should go smoother. And by smoother I mean its still going to be really awkward with a lot of rope fighting and sweating but not embarrassingly bad.
Watch videos. Lots of them. There are a lot of good climbers that have youtube channels now. Endurance and speed will come, but don't race it. Low and slow

Animatedknots.com and climbingarborist.com are great for learning the basics.

Your size shouldn't be much of an issue when you learn the limitations. I'm 6'5 and 205. The Reach helps
Oh, one more thing..... pull ups. Fitness plays a big role in climbing an tree work in general. Be strong enough to do it the hard way and smart enough to not have to

 

[HusqyStihl]

I'd say 6' is good for learning knots, and a good start, but not quite enough for learning to use ropes. If that makes any sense.
Before I had any training, I learned the basic workings of DRT with 2 carbiners and a 50' piece of 1/2" climbing line sitting in my office chair. Hardware store rope is going to be much softer or not have the same core support that a climbing or rigging line has, making it harder to untie some knots and making friction hitches bind up worse. I made a loop with fish knots that simulated a harness. It had a figure 8 knot in the front to act as a bridge ring and a butterfly knot on both sides where the side "D's" would be, just that piece was probably 10'. I cut another section for a split tail hitch. I'd flip the rope through the door handle and tie in as if it were a real tree. Starting that way allows a lot of practice without having to wait on gear purchases.
If you know how the system works first hand, the first time you put a harness on and get your first climb, it should go smoother. And by smoother I mean its still going to be really awkward with a lot of rope fighting and sweating but not embarrassingly bad.
Watch videos. Lots of them. There are a lot of good climbers that have youtube channels now. Endurance and speed will come, but don't race it. Low and slow

Animatedknots.com and climbingarborist.com are great for learning the basics.

Your size shouldn't be much of an issue when you learn the limitations. I'm 6'5 and 205. The Reach helps
Oh, one more thing..... pull ups. Fitness plays a big role in climbing an tree work in general. Be strong enough to do it the hard way and smart enough to not have to

Thats exactly what im talkin about, didnt think 6ft was enough and figured that just any kind of rope wouldn't do/dress right or hold the same.

Do you have any suggestions on what type or brand rope would be best? Maybe i should just order a full length climbing rope? Or other kind/brand rope/size?

I've never climbed, but have been getting in touch with local guys to see if i can start by just watching them for days. getting tips. I know the only way, well easier for me is to learn by doing.

Thanks for the tips, always appreciated!

~Moose

 

[ATH]

....Do you have any suggestions on what type or brand rope would be best? Maybe i should just order a full length climbing rope? Or other kind/brand rope/size?....

I like the 16 and 24 strand ropes in the 1/2" range...something more to grab than 11mm. . I really like a tight eye spliced on one end. Don't add that to your first climb learning list...pay an extra $20 for the spliced rope.

 

[ShermanC]

Moose,
Some more good ideas have been put on your plates since yesterday. Be cautious about the arborist you are involved with because he might not be doing right in paying his groundies...a suspicion I have. Yes, as Brisbane suggested, you might be able to replace one or two of his groundies. A lot of our projects are done as a two-man crew and I'mtraining my guy to take over the business if and when I should stop due to age or health.

One of my favorite sayings is "Inspect what you expect". A competitor here once hired two brothers to workfor him cutting timber in the U.S. National Forest. Their earning had accumulated $1,000 but the boss said he couldn't pay them until the contract was completed. One of them came to work for me and the other waited to get paid. When the work was done the boss said he needed the money for repair of his truck...brushing them off with "I'll pay you after the next job we do". I not know if they ever got paid. Then my guy ran off with his girlfriend to get married and go work in a chicken processing plant. I wasted my time to train him and paid him daily as a contract laborer. Good help is tough to find in many types of businesses.

 

[HusqyStihl]

Moose,
Some more good ideas have been put on your plates since yesterday. Be cautious about the arborist you are involved with because he might not be doing right in paying his groundies...a suspicion I have. Yes, as Brisbane suggested, you might be able to replace one or two of his groundies. A lot of our projects are done as a two-man crew and I'mtraining my guy to take over the business if and when I should stop due to age or health.

One of my favorite sayings is "Inspect what you expect". A competitor here once hired two brothers to workfor him cutting timber in the U.S. National Forest. Their earning had accumulated $1,000 but the boss said he couldn't pay them until the contract was completed. One of them came to work for me and the other waited to get paid. When the work was done the boss said he needed the money for repair of his truck...brushing them off with "I'll pay you after the next job we do". I not know if they ever got paid. Then my guy ran off with his girlfriend to get married and go work in a chicken processing plant. I wasted my time to train him and paid him daily as a contract laborer. Good help is tough to find in many types of businesses.

I do have to say that this arborist always pays for my saw work and even keeps ahead on labor costs, on the other hand, i've never seen him working with the same groundies or even stop by with the same guy when picking up or dropping off his saws. Not sure how to take it as to wether he's running that big of an operation or going through groundies pretty fast. Always pulls out fist fulls of hundreds and pays all parts and a good chunk of labor to keep ahead.

Does live in a crappy area and leaves all his saws in the back of the truck in the "hood"... i asked him, "aren't you worried about getting everything stolen?", his answer was "everyone around here knows i'm crazier than they are and then pointed out a **** ton of cameras" "they don't call me Crazy Krav for nothin"

 

[HusqyStihl]

I like the 16 and 24 strand ropes in the 1/2" range...something more to grab than 11mm. . I really like a tight eye spliced on one end. Don't add that to your first climb learning list...pay an extra $20 for the spliced rope.

Any recommendation on any specific brands/names or rope? And recommended site sponsors to buy from? Links would be awesome, as i'm looking through alot of sites and there are soooo many options. If only i had a way to view everything in hand locally with a climber that knows his ****. I don't have a problem with buying a large length of rope just to cut up or use as practice tying knots.

Or even better, would you suggest any "Total Packages" i've seen as deals for pro climbing? Are these deals decent or is it better to piece together what a good climbing system would be. I'm sure everyone has their own specific opinions but if spending 1500-1800$ on one of these full SRT/DRT combo full packages is the best way to go...

I'd prefer not to start out with the "starter kit" just to find out that i need to drop almost twice the money in the near future to upgrade. And i definitely don't intend on buying anything used when my life is on the line literally..

Thanks ~Moose

 

[HusqyStihl]

http://wesspur.com/clearance/clearance-rope.html

this is what i'm currently checking out in regards to buying some lengths of rope to practice knots only with. and of course if needed around the shop... any suggestions? doesn't really say brand names that i've found yet. unless im completely oblivious and i just pulled this page up now so just startin to look into it

EDIT: duh, the brand names are right in the description. but what is top notch in this situation??

 

[HusqyStihl]

http://www.wesspur.com/climbing-kits/custom-climbing-kits.html

And if i was to go all out... i'd prefer to try this stuff on but nothing really local for options. Anything in here worth it? overpriced? lacking quality/quantity for price?

I'm sorry for all the questions, just very curious and i'd love to get started right away at just learning the basics of fitting everything together (not climbing right away), just to get a feel for where equipment needs to be, how it should feel, comfortability, i know there are threads about every last option of piece of equipment but it would take days to go through them all to get best opinions and it seems legit to purchase an entire kit all at once and then decide which pieces i'd be more inclined to replace or swap out after learning the basics.

that said, i do plan on spending alot of time with climbers as soon as i can find some, just to watch and gain more knowledge whenever possible. Kinda tough to do when everyone around here is begging for climbers...

I guess i should have titled this thread "Becoming a Climber"


Thanks

~Moose

 

[ropensaddle]

If you can go to a isa climbing seminar or find a local ctsp your better off starting on a firm foundation and yes you will learn more as you go but better to go from correct footing!

 

[ropensaddle]

As far as rope it will depend on many factors ie srt drt that's why going to a seminar is cost effective! The instructor at these events is almost always well versed in all styles and can usually tell you the good bad and ugly of gear! I myself will be switching to a srt rope wrench chest acender rope walker and hasss!

 

[HusqyStihl]

I will be researching and going to any type of seminar i can find in my area, and also out of area if needed or can't find anything close-by. The more knowledge and info i can hear/find, the better.

The rope i was referring to is just some lengths to practice all types of knots before leaving the ground. I was just asking which type/brand rope would be appropriate to order in a 50 or 100ft length of 1/2" to cut up and use as strictly practice rope for this reason..

Any and all help is always appreciated sir!

EDIT: most likely i will be looking at DRT/Spur climbing system for tree removal only at this time..


Thanks, ~Moose

 

[ropensaddle]

I will be researching and going to any type of seminar i can find in my area, and also out of area if needed or can't find anything close-by. The more knowledge and info i can hear/find, the better.

The rope i was referring to is just some lengths to practice all types of knots before leaving the ground. I was just asking which type/brand rope would be appropriate to order in a 50 or 100ft length of 1/2" to cut up and use as strictly practice rope for this reason..

Any and all help is always appreciated sir!

EDIT: most likely i will be looking at DRT/Spur climbing system for tree removal only at this time..


Thanks, ~Moose

If you plan to climb on it buy the best you can afford and if drt u will need 200 foot hank because running out of rope mid tree is no fun Buy you the tree climbers companion this is not a learn through trial and error thing just sayin!

 

[ropensaddle]

Now if you really want to be an arborist start learning soil and water relations, prescription fertilization,taxonomy,ipm the list is forever and then more lol

 

[HusqyStihl]

If you plan to climb on it buy the best you can afford and if drt u will need 200 foot hank because running out of rope mid tree is no fun Buy you the tree climbers companion this is not a learn through trial and error thing just sayin!

Found the Tree Climbers Companion free PDF on google and have read it twice so far, hence the reference in there about Mr Brion Toss? suggesting a length of rope to carry around to practice tying knots. I've also got a hard copy on the way

 

[HusqyStihl]

Now if you really want to be an arborist start learning soil and water relations, prescription fertilization,taxonomy,ipm the list is forever and then more lol

I've found this out lol, its mind boggling the amount of info one needs to know. I can see now why losing one good arborist to a fatality with all the knowledge in that persons head is so so tragic

 

[ShermanC]

http://www.wesspur.com/climbing-kits/custom-climbing-kits.html

And if i was to go all out... i'd prefer to try this stuff on but nothing really local for options. Anything in here worth it? overpriced? lacking quality/quantity for price?

I'm sorry for all the questions, just very curious and i'd love to get started right away at just learning the basics of fitting everything together (not climbing right away), just to get a feel for where equipment needs to be, how it should feel, comfortability, i know there are threads about every last option of piece of equipment but it would take days to go through them all to get best opinions and it seems legit to purchase an entire kit all at once and then decide which pieces i'd be more inclined to replace or swap out after learning the basics.

that said, i do plan on spending alot of time with climbers as soon as i can find some, just to watch and gain more knowledge whenever possible. Kinda tough to do when everyone around here is begging for climbers...

I guess i should have titled this thread "Becoming a Climber"


Thanks

~Moose

 

[ropensaddle]

I've found this out lol, its mind boggling the amount of info one needs to know. I can see now why losing one good arborist to a fatality with all the knowledge in that persons head is so so tragic

Thats why we have young prospects like you to take our place as far as just knot tying on the ground not aloft use anything its not going to matter on the ground. If your meaning aloft get what you plan to use!

 

[ShermanC]

Yes,yes, yes...lots of questions, lots of knowledgeable guys and gals who want to help newcomers get into the trade safely and yes...many different products and techniques. An excellent pocketbook is Thomas Glover's POCKET REF, 3rd edition published by Sequioia Publishing in Littleton, Colorado. It sells for about $12.00 and is worth about 200 times that including the knot section. I wrote them last year with suggestions for improving the next edition. The book is also a great gift idea for doer's and thinker's. PM me your address and I'll mail you one as a contribution to your career goal.

Although I've been at this trade for 23 years and I have been through three apprenticeships in other trades since 1953 I have not sought certification in arboriculture. At age 74 I must Consider fixed costs for these priorities: TCIA dues, liability insurance, vehicle insurance and weekly advertising...$3,500 to $3,700 per year. Contrast that to 25-45 tree jobs worked per year. Much of our work is repeat business so what comes in goes out and there's scarcely $ left for more expense. The weather we have in the ridges and hollows of the Ozarks makes it difficult to justify the costs of certification and accreditation. Two train trips to TCIA Expos in Milwaukee and Pittsburgh were well worth the cost. I may have spent more than what certification would now cost. So at this point we are doing all we can in view of weather and market demand...certification would not give us an upper hand on the business. Our upper hand is achieved by carefully respectfully delivering great service and constantly studying to "unleash the power of continuous improvement" (sub-title of the book Just-In-Time by William A. Sandra's, Jr.). In large metro areas where population and number of households per square mile is greater the reasons would likely change, at least to start with ISA certification then CTSP. Rome was not built in one day...it took two.

 

[HusqyStihl]

Thats why we have young prospects like you to take our place as far as just knot tying on the ground not aloft use anything its not going to matter on the ground. If your meaning aloft get what you plan to use!

34 years living in this area and honestly i've never seen a local climber anywhere, i'm just starting to get questions about wether i climb but they questions keep coming. I keep wondering if there are any climbers anywhere around me, there's gotta be but maybe i just don't look up often enough

 

[HusqyStihl]

Yes,yes, yes...lots of questions, lots of knowledgeable guys and gals who want to help newcomers get into the trade safely and yes...many different products and techniques. An excellent pocketbook is Thomas Glover's POCKET REF, 3rd edition published by Sequioia Publishing in Littleton, Colorado. It sells for about $12.00 and is worth about 200 times that including the knot section. I wrote them last year with suggestions for improving the next edition. The book is also a great gift idea for doer's and thinker's. PM me your address and I'll mail you one as a contribution to your career goal.

Although I've been at this trade for 23 years and I have been through three apprenticeships in other trades since 1953 I have not sought certification in arboriculture. At age 74 I must Consider fixed costs for these priorities: TCIA dues, liability insurance, vehicle insurance and weekly advertising...$3,500 to $3,700 per year. Contrast that to 25-45 tree jobs worked per year. Much of our work is repeat business so what comes in goes out and there's scarcely $ left for more expense. The weather we have in the ridges and hollows of the Ozarks makes it difficult to justify the costs of certification and accreditation. Two train trips to TCIA Expos in Milwaukee and Pittsburgh were well worth the cost. I may have spent more than what certification would now cost. So at this point we are doing all we can in view of weather and market demand...certification would not give us an upper hand on the business. Our upper hand is achieved by carefully respectfully delivering great service and constantly studying to "unleash the power of continuous improvement" (sub-title of the book Just-In-Time by William A. Sandra's, Jr.). In large metro areas where population and number of households per square mile is greater the reasons would likely change, at least to start with ISA certification then CTSP. Rome was not built in one day...it took two.

PM sent! Very appreciated Sir!!!

~Moose