Becoming and Arborist

[lxt]

M.D, the term Arborculture as you have defined by use of dictionary sources in no way reflects what the definition for an arborist is!!

Arborculture is part of a larger spectrum pertaining to the green industry, The term/title Arborist is specific & the definition states what it is, what it does, etc..

I have read your posts & truely what I get from most of them is: you try to justify your title & its importance without being able to apply the main skills of which it stands for!!

You complain of aches, pains & nervousness.......guess what..we have all been there, are still there & will be there for some time, funny with all these symptoms you have.......you would "call me out" for a pruning battle!!

personally from what you say, I think you tried climbing, probably froze up!! Now you just stay on the ground cause you dont have the ability to do the job up there, your defense is "knowledge based" simply because your scared of heights!!!

even the other arbos agree that climbing is needed & they apply it!!, their defense is that a certification will propell the person forward ( I agree but the format must change IMO), but still engage in the climbing portions within the field not because of want(well maybe) but because of necessity!!

Ill bet this guy up 60ft & out on a limb caused more damage than good, rip`s on the cuts, stubs, improper cuts,etc...

your landscape work is good, stick with that!!

LXT...........

 

[oldirty]

M.D,
I have read your posts & truely what I get from most of them is: you try to justify your title & its importance without being able to apply the main skills of which it stands for!!

.

i could not have said it any better man.

well said lxt. well said

 

[lxt]

I will not speak to the Oregon Landscape test, sounds like you guys run a tight ship and insist on high standards. We have beefed here M.D., but you do nice work, and are the man for nice gardens and estates.

As far as the ISA test online, based on some of the ISA people I have had the misfortune to deal with, I think that the ISA has nothing to worry about, if people cheat and get in, who will be able to tell the difference? Jeez, maybe some real treeguys could get in, I mean we are just dummies that run saws, after all, thats why we need the ISA guys to supervise us, we'd be lost without them.

Good post clearance!! he does do nice landscape work & should be proud!!

as far as the cheat & get in!! this is one thing that does need changed, I know Arbos that have lied about their "tree work" exp. & have gotten certification. I dont know if they have a better background check system now or what!!

My Daughter attends I.U.P took Biology, I met the professor(nice guy) he was kinda amazed a 38yr old was interested in the Biology of tree`s, long story short.....I would bet any kid currently starting/in college not having any Arborculture exp./or want thereof, could if they had the books for study take & PASS the ISA exam.

for some the fact that school & study is long ago & at age 50,55,60 these people have learned more in the field, by trial & error, asking questions, doing their job, etc... than any fresh(meaning 22-26yr old) CA has or will have for along time to come!!! why doesnt the ISA grandfather guys like this? even the federal govt did when they made the CDL mandatory!!

I think a guy with 25-30yrs exp. who can show his knowledge rather than sit a test should be given atleast this benefit, some of you have to remember in these guys era it was a noble/necessary thing for them to quit school, go work to provide, I know alot who only made it to 9th grade at best!! so the word TEST means study, which they havent done for as long as some of us are old!!

Its a shame these guys make it to work everday, first there last to leave, overachievers(spelling) in every sense, dont do drugs, never call off & most dont even like to take vacations!! hard workers & love their job!! these would be fine additions to to the CA title!!


LXT.................

 

[M.D. Vaden]

i could not have said it any better man.

well said lxt. well said

This justification issue really is when a handful of climbers try to elevate "ONE" of their skills that they do have, above many skills that they don't have, regarding how each "individual" tree fits and interacts in the ENTIRE landscape.

That's a smoke screen.

Not all climbers put up a smoke screen like that, because enough of them are satisfied in what they do, and like doing the part that they chose.

In other words, they realize that they don't have to redefine "arboriculture" for themselves.

Fortunately, the bulk of the industry has the situation under control, and realizes that a small tree is an "individual" tree and that a big tree is an "individual" tree. And that's arboriculture - caring for individual trees.

Now all we need to do, is to get a few like yourself, to pull-back into the orbit that keeps the industry on track.

 

[treesandsurf]

Hey, I'd like to see how they do that securely.

Mario, I was told that the test would have to be taken at a secure location (such as Sylvan Learning Center). Many secure exams in other industries and fields are taken online but are done at certain locations (such as universities) where there is a proctor who ensures that there is no funny business while taking the exam. Also, the computers are usually setup to limit access to information.

This again is just a rumor....

jp

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Mario, I was told that the test would have to be taken at a secure location (such as Sylvan Learning Center). Many secure exams in other industries and fields are taken online but are done at certain locations (such as universities) where there is a proctor who ensures that there is no funny business while taking the exam. Also, the computers are usually setup to limit access to information.

This again is just a rumor....

jp

If done like that, it could work well, although it would more than likely be an optional method.

Could save a lot of paper plus the need for protors to go through used materials making sure notes don't exist.

Personally, I like where a room has the people sitting at tables with flat surfaces exposed from almost every direction.

At least in a room, a proctor person can walk and see so much more.

I suppose if all depends on how a computer room is setup.

 

[lxt]

This justification issue really is when a handful of climbers try to elevate "ONE" of their skills that they do have, above many skills that they don't have, regarding how each "individual" tree fits and interacts in the ENTIRE landscape.

That's a smoke screen.

Not all climbers put up a smoke screen like that, because enough of them are satisfied in what they do, and like doing the part that they chose.

In other words, they realize that they don't have to redefine "arboriculture" for themselves.

Fortunately, the bulk of the industry has the situation under control, and realizes that a small tree is an "individual" tree and that a big tree is an "individual" tree. And that's arboriculture - caring for individual trees.

Now all we need to do, is to get a few like yourself, to pull-back into the orbit that keeps the industry on track.

Justification!!!! LOL. you are funny, you are the only one trying to justify not having a skill that in & of itself is a necessity(part of) but a necessity none the less to be a CA!! you`re right they are satisfied but also very knowlegeable, they just dont want associated with all the Certified BS.

Noone is redefining Arborculture, can you read? we are stating what the requirements of a CA should/use to be as opposed to what they currently are.

Bulk of industry in control??? LMFAO, they just dont feel the need to discuss this at the level we are!! why? cause as long as the ISA makes oodles of money from a designation they wont change a thing.....which in business sense is good...However the down side creates a lack of skill if the current trend stays in place, which by the way is a current problem!!!

what we need to do & my offer still stands, is to get your azz off the ground by more than 10ft, no orchard ladders!!! & put you in check with reality!!

You try to dazzle us with your fancy jibberish!!! once it is simplified, basically your saying......I cant climb, Im nervous about it, I manage what I cant do!! & will twist things, posts,terminology, etc.. & conjure up a reality to try to justify youself!!

M.D.........read your posts!! Man.....someone get him some gear & help him out, just diaper him up first it could be messy!!! Your like the 80yr old driving a corvette......what you have(on paper) looks good!!...You just dont have what it takes to perform...in the literal sense!!!!


LXT...................

 

[Mitchell]

go for it

For me, it's been long enough, that I'd need to practically start from scratch.

Once we get to Portland area again and get the cash flow moving better, I may buy some climbing gear, but not for doing contracting of trees.

I know an arborist up there who can work with me.

It may be a work-out, but I would find it amusing at least. Recreational? Maybe once I'm up in the canopy.

See, I've tossed around the idea about replacing my 385 XP that I sold a few years ago with the same, or up to a 3120 XP "just because" - I can find a use, even if it's helping the other aborist buck-up something.

But considering how little it would be used, that $1100 could provide a decent investment in gear. I could also loan it to my better known arborist friends too - the few I trust.

So sure, I'm game for reaching the big canopy again.

You will not regret trying your hand at climbing. If your hiring experienced climbers they can help you with the basics. You will appreciate not having to call in a pro for simple operations that you can learn to deal with yourself.

It goes without saying you will be scared stiff at times, questioning what the frick you are doing, it is a curve everyone goes through. The overwhelming sensations keep you honest and it gets less all consuming in time. Pretty soon you'll be stopping to admire the view and wondering what life would be like not hanging out in trees.

LXT, No sense in bashing on him for giving it a go, after all he is attempting to achieve what we feel is needed in aboricultor. Perhaps he will to agree after time. It makes more sense to be supportive of CA that want to fulfill their credentials.

Keep us updated

 

[lxt]

You will not regret trying your hand at climbing. If your hiring experienced climbers they can help you with the basics. You will appreciate not having to call in a pro for simple operations that you can learn to deal with yourself.

It goes without saying you will be scared stiff at times, questioning what the frick you are doing, it is a curve everyone goes through. The overwhelming sensations keep you honest and it gets less all consuming in time. Pretty soon you'll be stopping to admire the view and wondering what life would be like not hanging out in trees.

LXT, No sense in bashing on him for giving it a go, after all he is attempting to achieve what we feel is needed in aboricultor. Perhaps he will to agree after time. It makes more sense to be supportive of CA that want to fulfill their credentials.

Keep us updated

Your right!! I guess when someone calls me out for a pruning battle...LOL, it just gets me going!! M.D......I wish you nothing but success & hopefully the attempt at climbing will work for you, Enjoy!!

LXT..........

 

[oldirty]

Your right!! I guess when someone calls me out for a pruning battle...LOL, it just gets me going!! M.D......I wish you nothing but success & hopefully the attempt at climbing will work for you, Enjoy!!

LXT..........

Great way to end this thread.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

 

[ropensaddle]

[/QUOT

:sword: :stupid:

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Hey... this is one of the tallest threads in the index.

You saying you can't climb this thread any higher?

 

[bigshea13]

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/HTMLFILES/words words words.html



whos gonna argue with this? come on .....somebodys gonna. show us how stupid you really are.

 

[clearance]

According to his defintion I am not an arborist, thats A-ok, the word has become shrouded in controversy, and I care not to be lumped in with the mutts, althought there are good and bad.
Alex Shigo was good man, like I said here before, he wrote a small book about utility work, I have it. He cared for trees, I care for reliable power, after safety, trees third. But he showed us how to do both, he knew that it wouldn't be pretty, but he wanted the power to stay on and the trees to live, ugly or not.

He helped, he didn't hold his nose and criticize, all the while enjoying electricity. Not like the holier than thou culls who put down us utilty guys. Hypocrits, all of them, but not the late Dr.Shigo.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

According to his defintion I am not an arborist, thats A-ok, the word has become shrouded in controversy, and I care not to be lumped in with the mutts, althought there are good and bad.
Alex Shigo was good man, like I said here before, he wrote a small book about utility work, I have it. He cared for trees, I care for reliable power, after safety, trees third. But he showed us how to do both, he knew that it wouldn't be pretty, but he wanted the power to stay on and the trees to live, ugly or not.

He helped, he didn't hold his nose and criticize, all the while enjoying electricity. Not like the holier than thou culls who put down us utilty guys. Hypocrits, all of them, but not the late Dr.Shigo.

Hey... it wasn't exactly utility work, but sort-of. But a crew cleared trees along the highway from near our home to near downtown Jacksonville, Oregon.

First, the whole areas to the side and overhead were butchered with those shreading machines on hydraulically manipulated arms or booms.

But then this bucket truck came through and it was done - AGAIN - a few weeks later for both sides of the 8 miles or more, with chainsaw.

Actually, the guy did a fairly decent job.

Not sure if the first butchery was preliminary clearing or just the norm and too many people complained. Because I heard about it from people asking me if I had seen "what they did to those trees".

 

[clearance]

Hey... it wasn't exactly utility work, but sort-of. But a crew cleared trees along the highway from near our home to near downtown Jacksonville, Oregon.

First, the whole areas to the side and overhead were butchered with those shreading machines on hydraulically manipulated arms or booms.

But then this bucket truck came through and it was done - AGAIN - a few weeks later for both sides of the 8 miles or more, with chainsaw.

Actually, the guy did a fairly decent job.

Not sure if the first butchery was preliminary clearing or just the norm and too many people complained. Because I heard about it from people asking me if I had seen "what they did to those trees".

Maybe in the first instance you are refering to a "giraffe" type machine, a circular saw on a boom, controled from the cab. Those machines are not used here, never seen one, only pictures.
But I am sure they have been looked at by our utility, interesting. Now that would be funny, giraffes running here, thier work supervised by the utility guys, being ISA utility specialists and all.
Sounds like the guy in the bucket cleaned up the stubs, different, for sure.

 

[Sprig]

MDV, I don't know but it sounds like they used the machine to clear away the foliage so the people in the buckets didn't have to fight through it to find what they needed to cut? Makes economical sense to me since they did take the time to actually get someone in there to do the final cuttings rather than pillage it to start with.
How did it turn out? Just wonderin'.



Serge

 

[ropensaddle]

They are used a lot here no stub cleanup here though!
Anyway utility row has a tough job balancing between
public and safety and proper clearance! I did that for
a long time and got my point across sometimes that
if you cut the fast growers back at a greater distance
a better looking and more healthy row will result!
The problem is exactly that clearance will tell you
they want a specified clearance usually ten foot!
A large tree standing a mere ten foot at trunk
stripped to skyline even with laterals will look
terrible. Who takes the abuse of improper
methods, clearance and people doing this job!
Now take the same line cut fast growers back to
twenty feet and replant Crapes and other slow
growing plants in their place and I promise it will
look much better and be healthier. I have been
telling this since the eighties and even managed to
get permission on occasion and when implemented
the property owner always liked the result.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

MDV, I don't know but it sounds like they used the machine to clear away the foliage so the people in the buckets didn't have to fight through it to find what they needed to cut? Makes economical sense to me since they did take the time to actually get someone in there to do the final cuttings rather than pillage it to start with.
How did it turn out? Just wonderin'.



Serge

Aside from a few cuts, 95% of it looks great, especially for roadside.

This is not the machine they used for the first stage, but I just found this one and found it amusing...

http://www.diamondmowers.com/Products/Tripleblade.cfm

If I have time, I may take a few images along the highway to show how reasonable it is.

The initial machine on a boom may have been a circular moving blade like a giant rotary mower, or flail type, becasue the branches were shredded rather than cut.

Later, when the climber was out there, everything looked professional for a tree pruner. I've seen city guys in Hillsboro, Oregon, power pole prune without safety goggles. But this guy down here had all the right PPE on. Gloves, hearing protectors, face shield, etc., while using the chainsaw.

I think it was an Oregon Dept. of Transportation worker - ODOT.