Big Red Oak That Needs to Come Down

[jmpreiks]

Hi everyone, I'm looking for some advice on a big Red Oak that needs to come down in my front yard. Below are some photos for reference. Circumference at chest height is 116", giving a diameter of about 37". My eyeballing for height is around 60-70 ft, and maybe 25ft to first intact lower limb. I live in North Florida where these trees are pretty common.

My questions:
1) Does that fungus mean that it really needs to come down? I like the tree but an arborist said it needs to go, so I'm taking his word on it. I just moved in last fall so I have no idea if this is a recurring thing on this tree. It grew from nothing since about October and has turned almost black. I'm no expert but maybe all that damage means it was struck by lightning a long time ago or something.
2) How much should it cost (ballpark) to get this removed? The estimates I've received from tree service companies seem really high so I am wondering if they are just trying to take me for a ride. I'd also like to keep a bunch for firewood.
3) Is it worth it to try to keep the logs and hire someone with a portable mill cut them into boards? I am a bit of a woodworker and it seems a shame to waste that much red oak. But I also don't want to waste a bunch of money and try to deal with drying boards in humid Florida... I'm not even sure how much good quality wood would come out of that with all that damage down the side.

Thanks for any advice you can provide.
Justin

 

[Del_]

Questions in black, response in red.

[QUOTE="jmpreiks, post: 5714364, member: 141544" Hi everyone, I'm looking for some advice on a big Red Oak that needs to come down in my front yard. Below are some photos for reference. Circumference at chest height is 116", giving a diameter of about 37". My eyeballing for height is around 60-70 ft, and maybe 25ft to first intact lower limb. I live in North Florida where these trees are pretty common.

My questions:
1) Does that fungus mean that it really needs to come down? I like the tree but an arborist said it needs to go, so I'm taking his word on it. I just moved in last fall so I have no idea if this is a recurring thing on this tree. It grew from nothing since about October and has turned almost black. I'm no expert but maybe all that damage means it was struck by lightning a long time ago or something.
The fungus fruiting body does show that the tree does have a column of decay. Just how large that column is and how much it weakens the tree is determined by calculations based on measurements made with such devices as a Resistograph' and coring devices. Just to ease your fears some the size of the openings shown in you photos do not compromise the trees' structural strength as much as the visual may make one imagine. Your tree may be fine for many, many years. Attention to tree health makes all of the difference to how trees respond and rebuild in the face of such damage


2) How much should it cost (ballpark) to get this removed? The estimates I've received from tree service companies seem really high so I am wondering if they are just trying to take me for a ride. I'd also like to keep a bunch for firewood.
Get more estimates and proof of insurance. References. Like in any service industry, trained and skilled workers are not usually found at rock bottom prices.


3) Is it worth it to try to keep the logs and hire someone with a portable mill cut them into boards? I am a bit of a woodworker and it seems a shame to waste that much red oak. But I also don't want to waste a bunch of money and try to deal with drying boards in humid Florida... I'm not even sure how much good quality wood would come out of that with all that damage down the side.
This question is best answered by getting some sawyers on site. The Woodmizer company at their web site offers info on local sawyers I believe.

Thanks for any advice you can provide.
Justin[/QUOTE]

 

[ATH]

I agree, those holes don't look good, but nor is there enough information in that I'd say "remove it" based on those. There is a lot of callous tissue there which is very strong wood...but there could also be a lot of decay inside. If the decay was really extensive, I'd expect the trunk to have some swelling around that area.

If you are looking for second opinions, make sure you find a TRAQ (Tree Risk Assessment Qualified) Arborist. (search by location at treesaregood.com. There are certainly arborists who can make that determination without that 'badge', but how are you supposed to know if they know what they are doing or not?

Do not ask for people who are bidding on removal for their opinion...again, they may be fine, but they have conflicted interest. Some people can separate that and treat you honestly/others don't. Expect to pay for an assessment. Stand out there with them and ask them to explain what they are seeing and why they are coming to the conclusions they are. A good assessment shouldn't be "this tree has to go" or "this tree can stay". It should present you with level of risk giving you the information you need to make the decision.

Finally, if it is so rotted it is a high risk tree, there is probably not much of a log. Conversely, if the log is in good shape/worth sawing, it is probably structurally sound. There is always some wood to be had, but the question is whether there is enough grade log. The second challenge, is that will be a HEAVY log. Many tree companies cannot handle a 16' long 34" diameter log (+/-6000 lbs) Loggers are not equipped to do things quite as gently as you'd want in a yard. Hurdle #3 is metal. Sawmills really don't like metal, and many yard trees had something nailed into them at some point.

 

[Cycledude]

My opinion that tree will make lots of good firewood and that's about it. Just looking at the pictures I would agree it would be a good idea to cut it down to avoid what could be some very expensive possible catrastophies .

 

[jmpreiks]

Thanks for the great information everyone. I'll try to find a TRAQ arborist to see what they say. We have a couple other "risky" pines leaning over our carport they could look at too. The trouble here is we have the potential for tropical storm force winds, and you just never know if that will actually hit us in the next few years or not. So the tree removal companies use that as a scare tactic I think.

Just for reference I have been quoted $2,700 to $3,300 to remove that tree. I'd really rather not pay thousands to remove a nice tree...

 

[CanopyGorilla]

Just for reference I have been quoted $2,700 to $3,300 to remove that tree. I'd really rather not pay thousands to remove a nice tree...

Tree work is an expensive industry with expensive equipment and expensive insurance. I run into some customers who wonder why I can't just work for penny's and firewood. On any given day my truck has $5000-$7000 worth of climbing gear in the back. Throw in another $5000 worth of saws, the $30,000 chipper, $10,000 dump trailer being pulled by a $40,000 truck........ unfortunately we can't just charge what a lawn guy working for beer $ can. In my area that tree would be in the $2000 or higher range for any "real" company that bid on it. Sure, Uncle Buck might do it for $200 and the firewood, but Uncle Buck has dinged a few gutters in his day and probably won't want to do a final rake (if he even gets that far before walking).
As far as wood working goes that long log looks like it would be garbage. Keep a few of the larger crotches intact and have those slabed up!

 

[Oldman47]

I had a ash about that size removed for under $2000 but mine was not close to any power lines.

 

[ATH]

.....The trouble here is we have the potential for tropical storm force winds, and you just never know if that will actually hit us in the next few years or not. So the tree removal companies use that as a scare tactic I think.

...

Yeah...so you say that tree cannot tolerate a tropical storm? Was that also the case in 201x the last time a tropical storm blew through? Not that the force of the wind isn't a factor to consider, but if you cut down every tree that might blow over there won't be much left.

It has been studied: the tendency is for less experienced and knowledgeable individuals to be overly aggressive to prescribe removal. You can never be proven "wrong" once the tree is gone...

 

[Del_]

Yeah...so you say that tree cannot tolerate a tropical storm? Was that also the case in 201x the last time a tropical storm blew through? Not that the force of the wind isn't a factor to consider, but if you cut down every tree that might blow over there won't be much left.

It has been studied: the tendency is for less experienced and knowledgeable individuals to be overly aggressive to prescribe removal. You can never be proven "wrong" once the tree is gone...

And it may e a little crown reduction is in order in addition to actions to improve overall tree health.

 

[jmpreiks]

And it may e a little crown reduction is in order in addition to actions to improve overall tree health.

So is it even possible to save trees that have fungus like that? Or will it basically just continue to get worse forever?

 

[JeffGu]

For that much fungus to be thriving, there's going to be a lot of decay. Trees can't replace tissue like an animal, it has to compartmentalize the damage... you could spend a lot of money getting the particular fungus species identified and treating it with fungicides but you might be fighting a losing battle at this point. The tree won't live forever, but on the other hand they can live for years, even decades with that kind of damage. You need to decide how much risk you're willing to take. It appears to be fairly close to the house. Eventually, if the decay continues to spread, the trunk could fail. That can be mitigated with reduction pruning, to reduce canopy weight. Whatever you decide, you might think about getting a tree to replace it. Research for a suitable species and location in the yard, and get a head start on it, because some day that oak may indeed need to come down... and a dead tree is a more dangerous removal than a live one. That one shows a lot of callous wood from wounding much earlier in its life... probably from bad/homeowner limb removals.

 

[Oldman47]

While you are researching remember that things like a 20 foot space between a tree planting and your house are not often good answers. You will find that distance on lots of sites and I believed it 35 years ago, but about 5 years back I could not get house insurance until I had a good sized ash removed. That ash seedling had intentionally been planted at the 20 foot mark but trees pay no attention to planting suggestions. They grow as they please and mine was over-shadowing my house by at least 15 feet.

 

[crotchclimber]

I'm not sure what the tree companies typically charge in Florida, but the company I work for removes trees of that size and location often for around $2000. Definitely a discount if you're keeping all the wood since hauling is a major expense. Make sure you say you just want it on the ground and branches under a stated diameter chipped and hauled if that's what you want. Typically removal estimates are given to "make it disappear." As far as needing to remove it, I'd say it depends on more thorough examination via coring or similar methods as well as what your home insurance policy covers.

 

[ATH]

In addition to having the wood left as was suggested above, ask how much of the bid is for the stump grinding and what all they are doing with that. If it doesn't bother you, put a big flower pot on it and leave it there. To grind it is one cost. Taking away the grindings is another. Back-filling with soil is another. Planting grass yet one more. You can pinch some pennies (and maybe a nerve or two in your back) by doing everything except the grinding yourself it you want the stump gone.

 

[Del_]

I'm quite sure that with proper attention to optimizing the soil for tree health and a little crown reduction that in the proper hands......this tree has many more decades of providing benefits.

Arborist that provides this type of service need to be sought out. The yellow pages and searching online usually lead to companies most vested in tree removal.

Don't rush into a decision before you have more information.

 

[CanopyGorilla]

^^^^^

 

[treeseer]

Agree with above that holes are not good, but the scar tissue aka woundwood can compensate for any strength loss. Not sure what the black fruiting body is but it's nothing to be alarmed about. Smart to get unbiased opinions.

10% of the sprawl off by reducing outer branches with <3" cuts will go a long ways toward reducing load. Here's another case of overreaction to holes. It's what holds the tree up, and the load it has to hold, that matters.

 

[jmpreiks]

Thanks for the information everyone, I will definitely contact a couple more arborists to determine what we need to do to save the tree while still keeping the risk to our house low.

 

[Marine5068]

is that poison ivy all over it?

 

[Anomalychick]

I also live in North Florida. The photos you posted are a pretty common sight. If you drive through my neighborhood half of the homes have a number of unsafe looking trees leaning over them. Many of them have power lines going through them as well. The pine trees are considered more of a nuisance than the oak trees. Once every few months, I will see a house that has sustained some kind of tree damage, usually from branches breaking off a tree that looks like yours, or an entire pine tree going down. I've lived in my house since 2012 and in that time 2 pine trees have fallen on my rear fence from the city owned property behind me. Half of an oak broke off and fell on the neighbors house last July in a random freak tornado (weak) while I was standing there watching. A lot of the pine trees are dying, whether its from air potato vines or climate change (the wetland boundaries have shifted a bit in the last 10 years so soil moisture is different) I don't know if your trees are safe, but at this point consider them a hazard. Common sense should tell you that anything leaning over your house is a hazard. The question is whether or not they are an acceptable hazard to you. Nobody cries when a pine gets taken down around here.
Look, the honest answer is if you're a worrier, take down the oak and all the pines. Take down anything likely to crush your house. They are a hazard and you are taking a risk, whether their internal structure is compromised or not. I mean, we have some kind of minor tornado at least once a year here and something ALWAYS falls. If you're not a worrier, drive up and down the streets with older homes and you will see that almost every single one of them has similar dangerous trees surrounding it and people are simply going about their lives without worrying about it. This is why you have homeowners insurance. If they might only damage your house, leave them, that's what all your neighbors are doing. If they are of sufficient size and placement to be likely to kill you and your family while you are sleeping, remove them. Consider it an investment in your property and your peace of mind. $2500 is cheap to not have to worry about dying in your sleep every time you hear rain.
If you do take it down, you do get to have some fun figuring out what to fill the space with. You can have your own orange tree in your front yard if you want. This climate lends itself to so many beautiful trees, if you walk around one of the local nurseries some of the stuff is truly breathtaking at certain times of year. Or leave it, and don't worry about it, nobody else around here does.