Biodegradable bar oil...... anybody use it?

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There ya go

The real issue I'M FEELING here is really not about tackifiers or any form of lubricant. I think it's about convention and beliefs. We see this all over. Resistance to change and having to own up that what we had previously held as truth is really not. Things are not always as they outwardly appear and just because certain truths are passed down to us from previous generations of arborists does not mean we have to stay married to them. Any thoughts on this?

Read it, learn it, live it!

You have two choices... be the "cutting edge" or be "bleeding on the edge"
 
Wast veg bar oil

I've been running waste fryer oil in a dirty application saw without major issue given the lack of tack. I would like to use it in primary saws 'cause I just hate to leave the stains lying about the landscape especially in wetted areas where I do watercourse alteration such as bridges and bench cuts. And the New Brunswick fell'er talking about skidders, porters (and of interest "circle" and 'shadow' cuts - I wonder if the circle cut is synonymous with patch cutting?) would probably attest to the lack of availability of the veg oil stuff even if anyone could afford to try it. Most regular workers in my neck of the woods continue to use dirty stuff. I'd be pleased to be able to offer a cost competitive alternative to waste motor oil for the bar and chain.

So I've been batting about the question of how to add tack to the WVO and am happy to have found this thread. I'll check out the sister thread. But I would love to find some household OTS kind of thing locally for the tack.. Some suggestions were Algin from seeweed (actually an emulsivier), corn starch..., pectin... tried that; no misc., horse hooves, glue... but so far just batting it about. Learning that there's tack made for plant oils is cool. But I bet the same stuff that goes into dino bar oil would do the trick. Any thoughts as to the availability of other tack products that might work??
 
StilhIT said:
I use 1 tank of oil per 3 tanks of gas hardly see the use of bio.

That would be an instance where regular bar oil is better; you're casting very little off, relative to the amount of cutting you're doing. I think it's smart to turn the oiler volume down. Most of us don't (if I can generalize) and we just run it at factory specs, which is one tank of gas used=one tank of oil used. Good job on you to not accept that this ratio is necessarily true.


I run my oiler volume at factory spec, knowing that this offers up too much oil for what is needed. However, as the experimental guneau pig, I change nothing in use except vegetable oil instead of regular bar oil. In fact, I go as far as to only clean my saw every 6 months, except for the sidecase/sprocket area and bar groove and air filter. Everything else is allowed to collect and do whatever it does. Every 6 months I pull out the compressed air if I'm feeling really exploratory I'll pop the clutch off and pull the oiler mech out, just to have a look. To be sensible, give your saw a good cleaning every two months. The saws run fine, Summer and Winter.

2dogs said:
Awesome necropost!
For those who don't understand this, Vernalis dug up this thread from almost three years ago.

And somewhere in this earlier thread I claimed to have used straight off-the-shelf veggie for about 4 years. The math goes like this .... 7 years.

7 years of using veggie, day after day as a commercial arborist. You would think by this time if something were inherently wrong with vegetable oil I would know it for absolutely certain. Actually, you would know it within the first few tanks, and certainly within the first few months...... but 7 years???

In that time I have sprayed hundreds of Gallons of oil into the environment, not out of deliberateness, but that's just what saws do. If I had chosen to stay with petroleum based bar oil I would have used just as much, but the difference is that the petro bar oil may still be out there in the environment in some form. Certainly it would be all over my tool area, on the hands and clothes of myself and co-workers and smelly petroleum bar oil would make it's way into my home.

Vegetable oil, straight off the grocers shelf, no tack, preferably canola but corn or vegetable (soy) are the same in almost all practical ways, easily and econoically solves a number of annoyances.
 
Got a quite a charge out of the material here but I have a few questions myself, since I've only run chainsaws most of my 41 years of life I want to make sure I got it right, petroleum oil is bad for me and the enviroment, I can accept that, veggie oil straight is good, suitable to eat but put it into the saw instead but when you add Tac thats a rubber product veggie oil is no longer fit for human consumption right? Running petroleum oil is bad because we might inhale the mist and fumes spun off the bar if I understood that logic????? And by the use of veggie oil over the last 7 years you've saved the polution of the enviroment by a major or minor margin if I understand correctly???? So armed with that logic maybe someone could answer these questions for me then since apparently I don't get it in the big sceme of things. If tac is so good then why isn't vegatable oil fit for human consumption after it add to veggie oil? Next will inhaling petroleum oil mist and fumes really kill me faster than the engine on the saw that HAS PETROLEUM oil mixed in it and burning petroleum based gasoline into the atmosphere under my nose already???? With the amount of petroleum oil you saved by running veggie oil for oiling the bar how much petroleum oil and gas did you kill the enviroment with by running the saw in the first place being burned in the engine???? How about the gas in the vehicles you used to get to the timber in the first place or haul the wood out with, isn't it like trying to bail the water out of swimming pool with a teaspoon while its raining an inch an hour [ somewhat defeating ]. I've run saws and equipment of all types all my life and have never seen the logic in saving by the ounce while spending by the ton. If you want to save the enviroment maybe put away the chainsaws, pickups, skidders, logging trucks etc, shut off the heat and electricity to your house grab an axe and live like they did 300 years ago and actually practice saving the enviroment. As for me I think I'll use all the conforts of the current age and probably keep using whatever oil is handy for the oiler of my saw because I don't see it destroying the enviroment any more than pumping it out of the ground in the first place, thats where crude comes from isn't it??? or did someone sneak it onto this planet without us knowing it. The only other amusement I have is to listen to the enviromentalists complain about me destroying the enviroment and when they are all done watch them go home in thier new hummers burning gas and live cozy in their heated and airconditioned new houses made mostly of wood and as they say life goes on. So go ahead tear me apart for my illogic
 
Actually, you're 100% right on all parts, I gotta argue with you on just about everything. Most of your points, though, have nothing to do with a thin film of high-lubricity liquid continually injected into a guide bar rail of a chainsaw bar.



And thanks for finding the material interesting and keep asking, I am full and willing to share my findings openly, so is randy and Coyote and Dunlap and I hope, anybody else who is using veggie, just ask because I've got tree work to do and I don't want to just stand up on my :angrysoapbox:

I am not an enviro-nazi. I began using vegetable oil to keep the petroleum stink off me, and the environmental/health feelings came along, I guess, as some sort of latent benefit.
 
Tree care, tree pruning, harvesting trees, removals; all are different worlds, and your PERSONAL WORK SITUATION should dictate whether or not you entertain this idea of putting canola oil in your bar oil tank. I can honestly, honestly only speak for myself, so I'll share briefly the type of business I run, and why veggie is, and has been, a good idea.


Residential Arborist, climber/owner, we do all the tree work+cleanup. Efficiency and economics dictate I have firewood takers come in and remove firewood, then we chip the brush. This keeps chip volume down, but it does mean cutting a LOT of firewood, perpetually, over time.

Jobs are a home at a time, climbing, pruning and takedowns. Make firewood, chip-up the brush. My saws get an inordinate amount of action, consistently over time. We collect the sawdust on tarps and it gets dumped in with the chips.

In dumping chips, I'm fortunate enough to have three chip sites nearby.
My oldest chipsite is 11 years old and we're thinking of mining out the soil and sifting it for vertical mulch work in our highly compacted residential soils. I said 'thinking about it', I'm not actually doing it, but the point is I am approaching a whole heck of a lot of soil in the near future.

Regardless of WHERE you put your chips, the oil flung off your bar is in there, in the sawdust and in the chips and on the firewood..... where else could that tank of oil be?

Now, once again, I can only speak for myself, and the amount of oil I buy, and spray off into the environment. Last year I used 56 gallons, one tree service. That is about 150 of these 48oz jugs, they come 9 to a case. Now, I think 56 gallons of oil put out into the environment is rather significant. For me, personally that is an affront to the environment I'm trying to care for and I'm open to different ways.

I do not want to pass judgement on to others, just offering information and experience and the insights of us all, collectively.

These are very encouraging discussions.
I'll bet we've got maybe 50 people who've read this thread now!


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I'm impressed you agree with me but will argue with me on every point, this should be good. Your not really my exwife are you???
 
:agree2:
Got a quite a charge out of the material here but I have a few questions myself, since I've only run chainsaws most of my 41 years of life I want to make sure I got it right, petroleum oil is bad for me and the enviroment, I can accept that, veggie oil straight is good, suitable to eat but put it into the saw instead but when you add Tac thats a rubber product veggie oil is no longer fit for human consumption right? Running petroleum oil is bad because we might inhale the mist and fumes spun off the bar if I understood that logic????? And by the use of veggie oil over the last 7 years you've saved the polution of the enviroment by a major or minor margin if I understand correctly???? So armed with that logic maybe someone could answer these questions for me then since apparently I don't get it in the big sceme of things. If tac is so good then why isn't vegatable oil fit for human consumption after it add to veggie oil? Next will inhaling petroleum oil mist and fumes really kill me faster than the engine on the saw that HAS PETROLEUM oil mixed in it and burning petroleum based gasoline into the atmosphere under my nose already???? With the amount of petroleum oil you saved by running veggie oil for oiling the bar how much petroleum oil and gas did you kill the enviroment with by running the saw in the first place being burned in the engine???? How about the gas in the vehicles you used to get to the timber in the first place or haul the wood out with, isn't it like trying to bail the water out of swimming pool with a teaspoon while its raining an inch an hour [ somewhat defeating ]. I've run saws and equipment of all types all my life and have never seen the logic in saving by the ounce while spending by the ton. If you want to save the enviroment maybe put away the chainsaws, pickups, skidders, logging trucks etc, shut off the heat and electricity to your house grab an axe and live like they did 300 years ago and actually practice saving the enviroment. As for me I think I'll use all the conforts of the current age and probably keep using whatever oil is handy for the oiler of my saw because I don't see it destroying the enviroment any more than pumping it out of the ground in the first place, thats where crude comes from isn't it??? or did someone sneak it onto this planet without us knowing it. The only other amusement I have is to listen to the enviromentalists complain about me destroying the enviroment and when they are all done watch them go home in thier new hummers burning gas and live cozy in their heated and airconditioned new houses made mostly of wood and as they say life goes on. So go ahead tear me apart for my illogic
:agree2::cheers:
 
What about mixing canola with BioPlus 50/50??

We run Stihl BioPlus only in our saws (as I stated here months ago). I cut mine to about 2/3 BioPlus as the container allows. I don't run it less because I think straight canola sticks to the bar and cain as well. Right now we are working in a river and will be for about 6 weeks. In that time we will consume 15-20 gallons of BioPlus. Otherwise we would just be dumping regular petro oil into the river.
 
I have A BIG PROBLEM. I have been using VEGETABLE OIL in all my saws this year, and NOW THAT THE WEATHER IS GETTING COLD, THE OILERS ARE ALL CLOGGED.
This has never been a problem for me in 14 years in the industry, BUT since I started using vegetable oil this year, (it works great when warm out, and I swear by it now), but ALL MY SAWS ARE CLOGGED NOW being it colder weather! Now my saws won't oil and I'm ruining my bars.
I'm in New England, so its not that cold yet either. Its barely dropped below freezing, maybe a few nights so far, but barely!

However, this is a real situation. Both my Stihls 026 Pro and 046 Magnum, as well as both my Husky 338's all are having trouble oiling. This seems to be a big problem? I poured a little bit of gasoline in the tanks to try to thin it out and clear it out, but its only helped a bit. Barely.

PLEASE, IF ANYONE HAS SOME ADVICE AS TO WHAT TO DO!
I don't want to have to take these all apart, as I have never had the oiler mechanisms apart and I have heard they are very hard to get to in some models. I am a very good mechanic and do everything else on my saws, although have just never had the oilers apart ever. Thanks

Thank you.

Greenstar-Boston
 
I have A BIG PROBLEM. I have been using VEGETABLE OIL in all my saws this year, and NOW THAT THE WEATHER IS GETTING COLD, THE OILERS ARE ALL CLOGGED.
This has never been a problem for me in 14 years in the industry, BUT since I started using vegetable oil this year, (it works great when warm out, and I swear by it now), but ALL MY SAWS ARE CLOGGED NOW being it colder weather! Now my saws won't oil and I'm ruining my bars.
I'm in New England, so its not that cold yet either. Its barely dropped below freezing, maybe a few nights so far, but barely!

However, this is a real situation. Both my Stihls 026 Pro and 046 Magnum, as well as both my Husky 338's all are having trouble oiling. This seems to be a big problem? I poured a little bit of gasoline in the tanks to try to thin it out and clear it out, but its only helped a bit. Barely.

PLEASE, IF ANYONE HAS SOME ADVICE AS TO WHAT TO DO!
I don't want to have to take these all apart, as I have never had the oiler mechanisms apart and I have heard they are very hard to get to in some models. I am a very good mechanic and do everything else on my saws, although have just never had the oilers apart ever. Thanks

Thank you.

Greenstar-Boston

If veg oil doesn't work in the winter then stop using it.
 
I think going back to regular bar will not solve the problem. You first have to figure out the true cause of the problem.

PLEASE, IF ANYONE HAS SOME ADVICE AS TO WHAT TO DO!
Thank you.
Talk to a saw shop technician. Ask him, "of the last 100 failures in oiler mechanism components (oil pump, pinion gear or tubing), how many were using vegetable oil?"

And then consider in the history of chainsaw use, like in the last 80 years, of all the oiler problems ever encountered over time, how many were using vegetable oil? Probably none.

Then ask at what time of year most oiler problems occur, it'll be Winter because regular bar oil gets more viscous the colder it gets, vegetable oil does not thicken as long as it is in liquid phase.

The answers should clearly tell you that oiler component problems do happen, and not because vegetable oil was used because up until very recently ONLY bar oil was used and even now only a tiny fraction of saw users are using veggie. Oiler problems have always, and will continue to happen. I don't think veggie oil will be a cure for that.

And Greenstar, of that pool of veggie users a very tiny few, over time, have stepped up with a true problem.

Where and why you're having a problem with all your saws, all at once, I can't say. I have to assume you clean out the bar guide rails, make sure the oiler hole going onto the bar is not obstructed and that the thin metal plate that the bar seats onto is also free of obstruction. This goes for all saws, regardless of veggie or petro oil. Sawdust gets into these areas, it is just what happens in chainsaws. Without regular inspection and cleaning oil flow will be blocked. When this happens the pump can be pumping fine, but oil is not being pumped to where it needs to go. Resistance builds up, components work harder and the weak link, which is often that 5 dollar plastic pinion gear that turns the oiler pump will strip out. It's an easy, in-field fix if you have the new part in hand. I know this because every homeowner saw user who knows me will ask if I can look at their saw and see why the oiler is not working. I've pulled dozens of these apart. Usually it's something clogged with sawdust. They've ALL been using regular bar oil.

Once the bar and chain are off, fire that mother up. Oil should be pumping out the side case. If not, inside of 3 minutes you should be able to pull the clutch, spindle bearing and sideplate to have a look deeper inside. At that point the plastic pinion gear can be pulled and inspected. Use compressed air and a tiny carburator screwdriver to pick around and clean the recesses (this should be done every few months, regardless of veggie or regular bar oil).

Lastly, consider this: Do you, when opening your gas and oil caps, crack open the cap, blow/brush the sawdust away from the cap rim, then open the cap fully? Do your groundguys take this step? If not, sawdust will fall into the tanks and as far as oil tanks, I don't really know if saws have a filter for bar oil. If they do, sawdust will cake the filter. If not, sawdust will get sucked into the oiler mechanism and transfer tubing.

These problems, as you can see, are not necessarily related to veggie oil or bar oil, but rather sawdust getting into places we rather it not be. With care and attention and some regular cleaning one can minimize this to some degree, but a saw makes sawdust. I don't know what else can be said about that.

I don't think veggie is the problem. This will be my 9th Winter using veggie oil, the only thing I do differently is use only canola in the deep of winter, rather than corn, soybean or blends like the rest of the year. Canola stays liquid to the upper teens/low 20's
 

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