Bleeding the hydrolic system

[Millman]

We just got out hands on a really nice homebuilt splitter. The only problem is the person that owned it before us used motor oil instead of Hydraulic oil. We would like to completely drain the system. Anybody got any advice?? I should have some pictures tomorrow.:spam:

 

[Millman]

Find out more...

The guy started the motor up on the first pull yesterday, temp was 35 outside. He said the engine hadn't been started since last fall. He activated the Ram and it went out ok but died on the return stroke. after everything warmed up, it worked but was slow. Couldnt tell the condition of the oil, or level. We're hoping it's only a little low and some moisture in the system. everything else looks in good shape. 8" I beam is impressive. Looks like a 5", 30"stroke cylinder. 5HP briggs and 11 GPM pump. Possibly under powered for the cylinder. Comments??

 

[Patrick62]

Really?

Swapping it out for Hydraulic oil isn't such a bad idea.
drain and refill the tank with univ. hyd oil, then run the return line into a drain pan. Start the engine with the control in foreward. Kill it when the cylinder reached stroke. This will get most of the oil from the system.

I ran a 5" cyl with a 13.5 pump and it was S L O W.
I could only imagine what 11 gpm would be like. . .

Fact is that 16 gpm on a 5" cylinder isn't going to win any speed records.

Good luck!

-pat

 

[timbrjackrussel]

check out http://www.baumhydraulics.com/cyl_speed.htm for cylinder speeds

 

[Millman]

The need for speed!

So, If I use the calculator right, I either have to replace my pump with a larger one or replace the cylinder with a smaller one to get a better cycle time. Right??

 

[Patrick62]

Confused, Kinda like me.

So, If I use the calculator right, I either have to replace my pump with a larger one or replace the cylinder with a smaller one to get a better cycle time. Right??

I would run it the way it is. If it is really slow, then maybe upgrade. But what is the hurry? Cylinders ain't cheap. Pumps might be easier to swap out, but not free either. Then you get into the problem I am facing.
1/2 hose and fittings trying to run a 16gpm pump. Almost compatable.

The biggest reason for swapping thhe fluid is that regular hyd oil flows a little easier at cold temps than 30W. In fact there are splitters that run Tranny Fluid. I expect the slush box in my pickup to go into gear at -20.... I have also had to warm the fluid in my splitter before it acted right in 15 deg...

Not a clue why they spec 30W in a Bandit. Different pumps? Pressures? flow ratings? Gawd only knows.

-Pat:monkey:

 

[ShoerFast]

So, If I use the calculator right, I either have to replace my pump with a larger one or replace the cylinder with a smaller one to get a better cycle time. Right??

Millman

Your math may be right, but that HP and that pump are sort of a match, (a little under snuff on the HP) the ram is so huge to get the force you need,,,, that splitter was over built, but under powered it seems.

Going to a smaller ram will be faster, but less force and may choce?


F = A / P

Kevin

 

[ironhead]

I've run tranny fluid in mine for the last 18 years.I would look for a smaller cylinder.If you change pumps your motor might be to small.With a smaller cylinder you could probably use your existing hoses.

 

[CaseyForrest]

I use ATF in my splitter, no problems.

If you want to spend the least amount of money, go to a smaller cylinder, at the cost of reduced splitting force.

If you want to keep your cylinder, and speed up cycle time, a higher gpm pump and at least 1/2 horse per gpm is what you need. i.e 22gpm pump needs AT LEAST 11 horse. I have a 4.5" cylinder, 16gpm pump and honda 8 horse, and I can split the nastiest wood using only half throttle. If i get into alot of kots Ill run full throttle, but havent found to many instances where thats needed.

 

[musher]

My splitter uses hyd fluid down to +10F, but calls for tranny fluid if I use it above 75F ambient temp. I guess that's what you get for having a 3.5 gallon reservoir on a 11 gpm pump.

 

[Millman]

picutres of the beast

We started it up and found a lot of water in the oil. We ended up taking the filter off, putting a 5 Gal bucket underneath and fired up the engine. It got most of the stuff out but the sludge on the bottom of the tank. I think we can tip the splitter back and drain it out the suction port. Any way we won't know how the splitting works until we refil and change the filter. Here are some Pics.

 

[Rivet Watcher]

Filter location

Any of you hydraulic guru's know if placement of the filter has any importance? Should it be before the pump inlet were there is en't any pressure or any were after the outlet?:monkey:

 

[Millman]

Viking Pump

The splitter has a Viking pump. It looks like a single stage pump. Anybody have any information regarding Viking Pumps?

 

[ironhead]

We started it up and found a lot of water in the oil. We ended up taking the filter off, putting a 5 Gal bucket underneath and fired up the engine. It got most of the stuff out but the sludge on the bottom of the tank. I think we can tip the splitter back and drain it out the suction port. Any way we won't know how the splitting works until we refil and change the filter. Here are some Pics.

Looks good but one thing i noticed. Your not suppose to use pipe fittings on your plumbing. They are not made for high pressure.

 

[Patrick62]

Plumbing fittings!

My experience has shown me that with a 5" cylinder the pressure really isn't that high to get a log to split. Usually less than 500#. This explains how they got by with plumbing fittings. They are rated at 700, and probably explode somewhere over 1000. I would change them out.

Engine is the old style flathead. If it runs, use it. Less power than newer stuff. And 5hp really isn't that great anyway. Stick a single stage pump on it and then it really gets bad. 2 stage is the way to go. Swapping on a 13.5 gpm pump from Northern might not be that bad. I used this combo for a few years. It would split anything, but the speed was slow. If you are not trying to bust thru more than a couple of cords in a day then it will work fine.

They put the filter in the correct place. If it is in the feed line to the pump then it can restrict the flow to the pump causing other problems.

Get all that water out of there! It wrecks really expensive stuff.

-pat

 

[ironhead]

I gave out some bad information this morning. Thats what i get for trying to think before i have finished a least 1 cup of coffee.The filter goes on the outlet side of detent valve between valve and tank. I just deleted the post i made this morning seeing as how i was wrong. I also have a suction strainer in the tank where the suction line connects to the tank. Both of the books i read on building log splitters said to put it there. One of the books was from Northern Hydraulics. Thanks TreeCo for bringing my error to my attention thru your thread.

 

[Rivet Watcher]

filter location

Thanks - IronHead & TreeCo
I had to replace my old pump and when I put the new one on It seemed louder. I checked a couple of pictures on this sight and along with your info I changed it over to between valve outlet and reservoir tank. The pump became much quieter so there must have been cavitation going on. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Zodiac45]

New Pump

My experience has shown me that with a 5" cylinder the pressure really isn't that high to get a log to split. Usually less than 500#. This explains how they got by with plumbing fittings. They are rated at 700, and probably explode somewhere over 1000. I would change them out.

Engine is the old style flathead. If it runs, use it. Less power than newer stuff. And 5hp really isn't that great anyway. Stick a single stage pump on it and then it really gets bad. 2 stage is the way to go. Swapping on a 13.5 gpm pump from Northern might not be that bad. I used this combo for a few years. It would split anything, but the speed was slow. If you are not trying to bust thru more than a couple of cords in a day then it will work fine.

They put the filter in the correct place. If it is in the feed line to the pump then it can restrict the flow to the pump causing other problems.

Get all that water out of there! It wrecks really expensive stuff.

-pat

Agreed Patrick,

2 stage is deffo the way too go. My 5 hp 4" runs an 13gpm 2 stage and I've yet too find a round it won't split. Last year we cut some 28" Rock Maple that I split verticle into quarters and let dry about 8 months. Those quarters I'm splitting now and they are are like clicking off T-bone steaks (as wood goes ;-) It don't get any better than that! The 2 stage pump is like having having a low gear when it bumps up against a tough split yet the first speed moves it along nicely. With good wood though I rarely need to move all the way through the cycle. These quarters I sort of slab and then can click off the stove sized bits only moving a few inches at a time.

Zee

 

[Millman]

foamy hydraulic oil??

Well we drained the fluid, refilled and fired up the splitter. We thought we had all the air out but I guess we were wrong. The ram extended in jerks and we cannot get it back in. We think we over extended the ram past the stops. We disconnected the hoses to both sides of the cylinder but we were still unable to get the ram in. It's either time to rebuild the cylinder or a new one. Also, the hydraulic oil looked milkey. Could this be caused by water in the system? Also will a 1 3/4" diameter ram be enough if I have to get a new one? Thanks in advance.

 

[ray benson]

It doesn't take much water to turn oil a milky color. Typical logsplitter cylinders are from 3.5" to 5" bores. The cylinder rods are around 1.5" to 2" diameters.