Bobcat or ASV for High-Flow Mulching Head?

[Samson09]

Greetings- Pretty much like the FAE UML/SSL 150 for the mulching head (other suggestions/feedback welcomed)...trying to decide which track skid to run it with: Bobcat T-320 w/demo undercarriage and steel tracks and forestry package, or ASV PT-100 Forestry Model (Presently Terex). Suggestions and opinions please. Thanks.

 

[redprospector]

What ever you choose, when it breaks down, and it will break down. The ASV undercarrage parts are about twice as high as the Bobcat parts. The ASV rubber tracks are outrageous too. The cheapest aftermarket tracks I've found for mine are about $2000 each. I don't even want to talk about OEM tracks.
I'm running a 2001 ASV 4810 with a Gyro trac head right now. It's a good machine, but I'm seriously considering going to Bobcat when I upgrade.

Andy

 

[catbuster]

Bobcat. Wait a little bit,and look at the M series. The T850 (8500 tip,not ROC) Looks like it will be abeast at 100+ horse (High-flow will be much better with 110 instead of 92) and more boom lift,allowing for a bigger head.

But between the 2,the ASV seems to be way more tippy and has a btter chance of rolling forward with the head up in the air. The bobcat is a much tougher machine.and I'd go for it.

 

[joesawer]

I have nothing good to say about ASV track systems or fiberglass hoods.

 

[Samson09]

thanks

thanks for the feedback guys...yea I heard about the new M series Bobcat track skid coming out...heard it was over 100 horse and weighs around 13,000- sales guys here says it should be coming out in June. Could function also as a little dozer I suppose. Besides the steel track system just seems like a huge advantage when considering wear factor in abrasive terrain. Thanks again.

 

[Lamboll]

You may want to consider stepping up in HP to a smaller dedicated track machine, unless you need the versatility of the SS unit. There are track machines 130HP that weigh on or about 10K lbs with the head.

 

[kkottemann]

Check out super trak....also consider gyro trac head or denis ciamf head...

 

[bluestem]

Bobcat. Wait a little bit,and look at the M series. The T850 (8500 tip,not ROC) Looks like it will be abeast at 100+ horse (High-flow will be much better with 110 instead of 92) and more boom lift,allowing for a bigger head.

But between the 2,the ASV seems to be way more tippy and has a btter chance of rolling forward with the head up in the air. The bobcat is a much tougher machine.and I'd go for it.

Hey cat, anymore info on this new T850? We have both a Bobcat t300 with the bobcat forestry mower and an older ASV with a Seppi and are looking to phase out the ASV for all the reasons mentioned above. Everyone at work likes the Bobcat and we are thinking of going that direction (we need something more versatile than a dedicated forestry mulcher).

 

[Samson09]

Hey cat, anymore info on this new T850? We have both a Bobcat t300 with the bobcat forestry mower and an older ASV with a Seppi and are looking to phase out the ASV for all the reasons mentioned above. Everyone at work likes the Bobcat and we are thinking of going that direction (we need something more versatile than a dedicated forestry mulcher).

stem-local Bobcat Salesman says the info they have now is VERY vague- says they have training on it in June, and right now it is passing all the legal channels (EPA, OSHA, etc., etc.) before release...so I'm thinking hopefully by August?

 

[SchafferLoaders]

High flow mulching head on Schaffer Wheel Loader

Hi Guys,

I was just after any feedback you can give me.
It's an interesting post you have up here.

We are going to release in Australia an articulated loader 9330T-high flow.
This will have a 130hp water cooled deutz matched to a load sensing bosch/rexroth hydrostatic pump. It will be designed for 150 litres per minute at 250 bar, maybe not the biggest flow on the market but it will definitely do this. Some customers of mine that own skid steers have put flow meters on their machines and have been suprised at the actual results.

The 9330 wheel loader is built from scratch for the job, it has a purpose built hydraulic cooling package (one side step is now an extra cooler, even the standard Schaffer Loaders have good cooling!), extra large alternator, full underbelly protection, optional plexiglass windscreen (unlike a skid steer the cabin is somewhat protected from the mulching head by the mast), ride control (nitrogen filled shock absorber on the mast) for long distance travelling, air intake goes through a few filters including self cleaning precleaner and a whole lot of other extra's to make it right for the job. Schaffer are serious about supplying the right machine for the job and construct different builds depending on the country the machine is going to.

You will get a much greater lift capacity than a skid steer as you have a longer wheel base and more weight out the back of the rear axle, giving you superior lift at the front.

Obviously you can operate other tools - augers, trenchers, 4-in-1, grab bucket, log grab, pallet forks with about a 3 tonne payload, use as a loader etc...

Road speed is standard at 20km/hr, but there is an optional 35km/hr.
The mast is incredibly strong - its not made of a hollow box section that can be put out of shape, its made of solid 30mm plate. Pins are a minimum of 50mm, but many are 80mm and all have 5mm bushes - the German manufacturer believes in building something to last.

Tyres would be solid filled from the start and we have an option of remoulded aircraft tyres that were originally rated at 20 tonnes per tyre at 235 mph! Or cut resistant forrestry tyres.
With a tyred vehicle you don't have all the under carriage and track maintenance which according to maintenance costs of bulldozers is meant to be around 70-80% of the total cost of running the machine. There are other forestry mulching units out there on wheels, but I think they are all dedicated (so not versatile for a contractor with other jobs - pallet forks, auger work, bucket work, logging) around 300hp so we are talking a totally different machine to the Schaffer wheel loader 9330 high flow.

Being articulated the Schaffer 9330 wheel loader will be kind on the ground, even fully articulating it hardly scratches the sufaces saving your tyres and your back. Some potentially interested customers have told me mulching big trees could be an advantage as you just articulate to turn the mast so can mulch something down instead of having to reposition the loader. Also visibility out the back is great as you are sitting more on top of the engine than a skid steer.

The centre of gavity is very low as there is a lot of weight low out the back of the rear axle, part of the reason you can pick up so much weight at the front. Also solid filled tyres really add to the low centre of gravity.

I'm not suggesting this is a total replacement for skid steers. I'm a big believer for the right machine for the job and are interested in this introduction. Schaffer Loaders have sold this machine in Europe for other high flow applications and now we are looking at putting the mulching head on it.

I've attached another story showing the environments where smaller Schaffer skid steer substitutes are found.

Cheers in advance for any feedback,

Cameron Moir View attachment 136921

View attachment 136922

 

[komatsuvarna]

It would probably work good as long as your on half way flat ground, and not working around any bigger trees. I have 2 wheel loaders(komatsu WA 150 and kawasaki 60) and there is no way that they would hang on were the compact track loaders go.

 

[komatsuvarna]

ASV or bobcat? Ive ran a few different combinations of these high flow mulching head. The ASV was the ONLY machine that did not run hot after 10/15 minutes of use. The ASV seem to have the most mulching power too. As said before, the undercarriage parts are outrageous, probably due to the Caterpillar design. Plus I wouldn't want a machine with plastic undercarriage parts.

The bobcat is pretty bullet proof. I prefer the John Deere CT series to the Bobcat T series. Both will run hot with the mulching heads.

I'm not familiar with the new T850, but sounds like it would be much better than the T300/T320.

 

[STIHLTHEDEERE]

ASV or bobcat? Ive ran a few different combinations of these high flow mulching head. The ASV was the ONLY machine that did not run hot after 10/15 minutes of use. The ASV seem to have the most mulching power too. As said before, the undercarriage parts are outrageous, probably due to the Caterpillar design. Plus I wouldn't want a machine with plastic undercarriage parts.

The bobcat is pretty bullet proof. I prefer the John Deere CT series to the Bobcat T series. Both will run hot with the mulching heads.

I'm not familiar with the new T850, but sounds like it would be much better than the T300/T320.

asv undercarriage IS NOT cat designed,in fact cat is asv designed and built. asv has been bought by terex,and that is why cat has come out w/ their own design. new 259/279/289/299 series. asv loaders have the best high flow systems,and get the power to the ground the best. but that is where it ends. we have 6 of them in our fleet right now,i will not say they are junk,but they are EXTREMELY unreliable. they have some serious electrical issues. best performing/riding undercarriage on the market,but extremely expensive to maintain. bobcat has been bought out by doosan,and their new machines look good. but the new design is definately unproven.

 

[komatsuvarna]

asv undercarriage IS NOT cat designed,in fact cat is asv designed and built. asv has been bought by terex,and that is why cat has come out w/ their own design. new 259/279/289/299 series. asv loaders have the best high flow systems,and get the power to the ground the best. but that is where it ends. we have 6 of them in our fleet right now,i will not say they are junk,but they are EXTREMELY unreliable. they have some serious electrical issues. best performing/riding undercarriage on the market,but extremely expensive to maintain. bobcat has been bought out by doosan,and their new machines look good. but the new design is definately unproven.

Well, i guess i had it backwards. Yes they they are the smoothest ride, but ill pass on the plastic stuff.

 

[Samson09]

Takeuchi TL250?

All-everything mentioned regarding ASV Tracks, undercarriage, expensive maintenance costs, as well as the exeptional hi-flow power seem common and agreed across the board.

Any one out there have experience running the heads with the Takeuchi TL250 track skid? (Or the Mustang CTL/Gehl CTL-basically the same with different paint). I know the TL150 is an excellent grading machine with brute power, strength, and durability but not sure about the TL250's ability (with hi-flow) to run the mulching heads.

 

[komatsuvarna]

All-everything mentioned regarding ASV Tracks, undercarriage, expensive maintenance costs, as well as the exeptional hi-flow power seem common and agreed across the board.

Any one out there have experience running the heads with the Takeuchi TL250 track skid? (Or the Mustang CTL/Gehl CTL-basically the same with different paint). I know the TL150 is an excellent grading machine with brute power, strength, and durability but not sure about the TL250's ability (with hi-flow) to run the mulching heads.

I have never been on a takeuchi. I pulled up the specs and they look like a pretty good machine, but the hydraulics dont match the ASV. It looked like it didnt have a vertical path boom, which probably wouldnt matter mulching.

I dont know about the gehls either. I have a good friend that bought a new 7810 (rubber tired) machine. It was a junk. It had about 200 hours on it and gehl bought it back and he got another one. Still a junker. I ran it and it is a strong machine. Probably the strongest one ive been on with tires, but it wound not stay together. All gehls may not be like this though.

 

[joesawer]

All-everything mentioned regarding ASV Tracks, undercarriage, expensive maintenance costs, as well as the exeptional hi-flow power seem common and agreed across the board.

Any one out there have experience running the heads with the Takeuchi TL250 track skid? (Or the Mustang CTL/Gehl CTL-basically the same with different paint). I know the TL150 is an excellent grading machine with brute power, strength, and durability but not sure about the TL250's ability (with hi-flow) to run the mulching heads.

I have run one with with a mulcher head on it.
In hot weather and dusty conditions it would over heat pretty fast. But it cooled off fast also.
Keeping the radiator clean helps a lot but the constant load is just more than the cooling system was designed to carry.
Over all I like it better than the Cat and ASV machines it is much more simple and rugged.

 

[SchafferLoaders]

Mulching heads on Schaffer Wheel Loader

It would probably work good as long as your on half way flat ground, and not working around any bigger trees. I have 2 wheel loaders(komatsu WA 150 and kawasaki 60) and there is no way that they would hang on were the compact track loaders go.

Thanks for the adivce Komatsuvarna.

You own some pretty big loaders there, Schaffer Loaders biggest is the 6 tonne 9330Z series. If a company owned a few mulching heads like STIHLTHEDEERE could you see the possibility of running a mulcher on the Schaffer obviously not for the steepest terrain as a tracked machine will as you say go up steeper terrain.
In Australia the skids mulching often seem to have cooling issues - it is hard work however. Also the Schaffer has 35km/hr travel speed between jobs and you would think this could be a big benefit?
Most of our inquiries are the same as what is discussed here - the cost of undercarriage and track maintenance makes it hard to make a decent living when repair and downtime is so high. With a wheeled machine you esape a lot of this.

Cheeers,
Cam :greenchainsaw:

 

[komatsuvarna]

Thanks for the adivce Komatsuvarna.

You own some pretty big loaders there, Schaffer Loaders biggest is the 6 tonne 9330Z series. If a company owned a few mulching heads like STIHLTHEDEERE could you see the possibility of running a mulcher on the Schaffer obviously not for the steepest terrain as a tracked machine will as you say go up steeper terrain.
In Australia the skids mulching often seem to have cooling issues - it is hard work however. Also the Schaffer has 35km/hr travel speed between jobs and you would think this could be a big benefit?
Most of our inquiries are the same as what is discussed here - the cost of undercarriage and track maintenance makes it hard to make a decent living when repair and downtime is so high. With a wheeled machine you esape a lot of this.

Cheeers,
Cam :greenchainsaw:

I Dont know what the terrain is like in Australia, so I may not be much help. Here in East TN it is mostly rolling hills, and its hard to find a half way flat spot. Most of the mulching that is done in my area is on rough, steep ground, to rough for a tractor to keep bushhoged. Thats usually the reason its ''growed up'' in the first place.The only wheel loaders in my area are in the rock quarrys, or on a pipe laying crew, were the terrain is good. I use mine to load/unload pipe, man holes, Water valves or any other parts, and it stays on the yard, were its flat.

Honestly, I cant see running a mulcher on a wheel loader in my area. If it was flatter ground, then yes. Id want the tires foam filled to keep down on flats, and it would help keep the center of gravity down.

I will say that i dont run a mulcher for a living. I lay under ground utilities and i rent mulchers when i need to clear a right of way to lay some pipe. I usually work in such tight areas that I wouldnt be able to keep the mirrows and lights on a wheel loader if it was flat enough to use it.

Im sure its like everthing else, It'll have its place.

 

[SchafferLoaders]

Mulching heads on Schaffer Wheel Loader

Thanks for the advice Komatsuvarna