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Bought dead bucket truck, need done info from you guys

Kgw51gmc

Kgw51gmc

94 c3500 hd boat anchor
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
34
Age
38
Location
Waynesburg, PA
94 Chevy c3500, Frank doerr truck equipment manufactured the utility bed and the boom and bucket I think.Pittsburgh based company. Any, it's old but looks good. I will post a few pics.
Background on me recently, I rebuilt all seven cylinders on my backhoe, and the entire valve bank/spools, have rebuilt three engines, one manual transmission, did the injector pump in my diesel Chevy dump truck, installed dump kits, and have had ten years experience running genie man lifts up to 100' for my stack testing career. All that being said, I am well aware of the dangers, etc. Safety is my goal for this farm use only rig.I want to focus on what I don't know.

I have never used a bucket Truck before, and this one is dead until I put an injector pump into it. So I can't try the bucket yet. I hooked a side shaft briggs up to the hydraulic pump today to run the boom independent off the trucks engine but it just stalled it out.
Pump is driven of crankshaft pulley on front of the Detroit diesel. And there is a twelve volt starter motor hooked up to a pump under the pedestal/tower in the need so, I'm guessing, you can let yourself down if truck runs out of fuel? It sure as heck won't lift it up! With good batteries too.
There are no model serial numbers on this. It got the normal white wash paint job ten years ago when the"other guy"bought it. The vehicle was sold new from Frank Doerr truck equipment, and they are out of business. I have no info on how it works, aside from the dummy stickers.

I would like to figure out if it has holding valves, and be able to test them. I wood like to know what the knob is for at the bucket that's on it's own, like a diverter valve maybe do you don't lean over it while working.
Is the electric back up intended for grounding yourself only?
If a hydraulic line blows, nothing keeps these things from falling?
This thing has ? Leveling chains? All thru entire boom, what's that for? Surely it's not just to keep bucket level?
Has an electrical control board under truck hood, seems to light up and work but without truck running yet not sure if it. I'll worry about the wiring later.
I want to verify to boom works....with four or five sacks of feed in it.

I assume it'll work fine with no wiring whatsoever to test it with the ground controls on the pedestal. I don't care to start as stop truck engine from the bucket, but I do want to be able to get down with the electric backup, or can it go down on its own like a front loader on tractor, it doesn't need to be running....
 

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FlyingDutchman

FlyingDutchman

Row Seatin'
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Apr 24, 2009
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690
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Scales Mound, IL
I've never seen a boom truck or a crane without holding valves. They need them for two reasons, to keep the boom from dipping when the control valve first opens, and to keep the oil in the cylinder when a line blows. Usually the holding valves are right on the base of the cylinders. A good way to test is to feather the controls and if the boom dips before rising the valve may be stuck open. Stuck closed is less likely but the boom won't raise then.

The knob in the bucket can be one of two things, a switching valve for ground and bucket controls and also an emergency down valve, which is usually a high pressure needle valve. If you have a complete stall with an open center circuit, sometimes one of the two switching valves may be in the wrong position blocking the circuit. Best thing I can suggest is read the manufacturer off of the valves, no lift manufacturer builds all their own stuff... The manufacturer of each component can potentially supply hydraulic schematics for the component if you know who made it. Besides that, you'll need to try to trace some lines. Try different functions with the switch valves in different positions etc.

I am also an expert in 6.5 diesels if you have issues there.
 
Kgw51gmc

Kgw51gmc

94 c3500 hd boat anchor
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
34
Age
38
Location
Waynesburg, PA
Holy cow. I appreciate your knowledge and am thankful to have found you.

I wondered why the base of the cylinders were built oddly (different than for a backhoe or front loader). Are they hard to service? And I likely week have to repack the gland/bladder on cylinders if they are leaking, will the holding valve come off easily or fly to pieces?

Ok and- I have 97 c3500, gm 14 bolt 4.10or.11, with dump kit, literally hauled 97 loads of asphalt millings, and 286 loads of dirt Dug from behind our farm all thus summer alone. I installed ip when it failed last year after exhaustive tests to rule out other causes. The rusty frame cracked in the middle in the trunk nearly broke in half last year and I mended it together by stripping the frame of every Bolt and rivet but not unhooking anything , plating the entire frame with 3/8 inch thick 4 x 7 angle iron and drilling more holes than I ever care to again and bolted the whole thing back together, then made all those huge hauls this summer, the truck used to flex if the dump truck was loaded crooked now it does not. It's a new Venture 4500, the truck was a flatbed when I bought it and still is but it dumps its awesome, I have access to scales down the road from my farm and I was hauling 4 tons to 5 tons for most loads some loads were only three, I spot check every so many loads just to see how good my guessing is and I document everything because it's fun.


The other truck that got me on to this website is a 94 Chevy C 3500 HD with a Dana 80 rear end 4.63 gearing and unfortunately it's an automatic. But it is also a 6.5 Detroit. I only paid $640 for the truck because the guy before me couldn't get it running and he left the intake manifold cover off as well as the ip optic sensor cover was removed from the injection pump so rust and mice and walnuts. Inside of everything.

Now I want to ask about your 6.5 expertise I will post a picture of the compression test results. I taped small tubing to a Shop-Vac and individually sucked out individual intake ports and use compressed air to blow it out afterwards and then squirted 3 to 4 big squirts of WD-40 to hit the valve stems and hoped it would get into the cylinder a tiny bit . It sat for 10 years in a yard sinking into the ground.
I did the compression test, it was 60° outside, with Good batteries. The results wer erratic but that is to be expected with a dry and cold engine not running compression test, in lieu of warming the motor up first like they want you to do. One of the cylinders was lower than all of the other ones. All the other ones were basically over 320 lb up to 440. But cylinder number 5 behind the daggone Turbo is 200 PSI, I added oil to tablespoons, and it went to 340 PSI, so I know it's the rings on cylinder 5 I think they are stuck. From your experience do you think if I get this thing running which I'm sure I can , do you think that set of rings on cylinder 5 can become unstuck?

. And these six fives are known for the harmonic balancer failing and breaking the end of the crankshaft off, that's a scary thought when you look and how the hydraulic pump is operated on this truck, from a heavy cast-iron double V belt pulley directly on the crankshaft sitting on top of the harmonic balancer, and the truck has a hundred and seventy-five thousand miles on it, in The Lift Truck World I would say that that's more like 300,000 miles if you count all the idling that it's done(or do they throttle up when raising boom)?
So if I try to get this motor running it's an instant $500 for another Pensacola diesel injection pump, plus glow plugs and ancillary other things that are rotted and destroyed, $800 or so to just get the engine ready to see if it will even work, a lot of it hinges on my opinion of the stuck rings on cylinder 5 and how spooky it is to have that heavy pulley on the end of the crankshaft when these trucks are known to break their cranks
 
FlyingDutchman

FlyingDutchman

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Messages
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Scales Mound, IL
The valves are generally straightforward. Pull them apart, take pictures of the order, take in the o-rings and seals to the hydraulic shop to be matched up like a cylinder kit. They generally don't need to be serviced unless leaking internally or externally. The cylinders won't need to be serviced unless leaking internally wont hold a load) or blow out the top of the cylinders.

On the 6.5s, low compression could be a number of things. Loose glow plugs, head gasket, sticking valve. You'll know pretty quick if you have blow by as the dipstick might pop out or you'll see heaps of pcv smoke out of the dipstick when removed. I guess I'd suggest feeding Marvel's mystery oil into it.

The crank is prone to breaking from faulty harmonic balancers which create uneven and percussive (impact gun) axial loads, which stresses and cracks the block, and then allows the crankshaft to flex and break. If you really want to know the health of the engine you inspect the main bearing supports in the block by pulling the oil pan. A good running engine might be trusted, even with some cracks, an engine you don't know if runs might as well be inspected before putting money into it, ideally no cracks if going to be used. Just confirming that the rubber on the balancer itself is good and the rubber on the crank pulley (if equipped with rubber) are still good are good basic measures. If they are trashed and the previous owner ran it, damage may be done. I'd have less concerns about the hydraulic pump drive than a trashed balancer with half the rubber missing on it.

You are already on Diesel place I noticed with the same username. Some of these questions should be asked or reasked there, compartmentalized into more succinct topics perhaps. Such as the low compression.
 
Kgw51gmc

Kgw51gmc

94 c3500 hd boat anchor
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
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Age
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Location
Waynesburg, PA
That's some good ideas. I'd say dropping the oil pan for a visual wouldn't take that long, as well as inspecting harmonic balancer.
That low compression cylinder jumped to normal reading with few tablespoons of oil, so it is the rings (I figure stuck to piston from sitting).

I figured out today that ip (left open for mice and ruined) was sort of loose...the three mounting studs had one missing nut, one loose, and top nut snug! Ip felt solid but could tell it had moved. So it just ran until it went out of time. So that is what happened ten years ago. Hoping I can guess where it was and time by ear, going to dealer is unfeasible, this thing not roadworthy/legal, have to tow there and back, plus costs.....

Thanks for your info! Being succinct is not my strong point but I'll try!
 
Kgw51gmc

Kgw51gmc

94 c3500 hd boat anchor
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When I rebuilt my forty year old backhoe cylinders(the three point type with subframe I made to fit my L3800 Kubota), I did like you said, took to hydraulic shop and they sold me all the parts- bladders to o rings. And the husco valves, they showed me the do and don't of rebuilding them. The rings on the pistons were so rotted, they crumbled, hoe wouldn't even move. That's another story.
 
Kgw51gmc

Kgw51gmc

94 c3500 hd boat anchor
Joined
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Messages
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Age
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I put a Pensacola diesel injection pump into the truck. , new glow plugs, glow plug relay, I remove the entire fuel system-tank included cleaned everything. I ran fuel into a bucket with the lift pump. Put together, and no start. So I put a junkyard PCM In to it And it fired right up. It seems to run good.

Now I was able to energize the Boom. The rotational hydraulic motor, the main hydraulic pump, and the main boom cylinder all work great. But the second cylinder for the upper boom Is leaking oil onto the hood now and has been all night. I'm going to pull it off. And take it to my buddies at the hydraulic shop to get the seals etc.

The thing I don't understand yet is what is the purpose of the big roller chains and sprockets inside of the Boom? And the entire 17 foot long top boom has a healthy layer of walnuts because rear cover missing. And I'm sure it has held moisture on everything. What is purpose of chain and sprockets, how to service, cost, and what if they break?

I can still not find any manufacture info on this!
 
Jhenderson

Jhenderson

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It sounds like you need someone there with you who’s familiar with hydraulic systems and booms. Yes it drives out. The nut holds it in. It could be frozen in the other side of the linkage or some fool may have welded it to the linkage, forcing you to remove 2 or more pins at once. It also may be held in by pressure on the linkage because you haven’t released all the pressure on the joint by blocking it up.
 
Kgw51gmc

Kgw51gmc

94 c3500 hd boat anchor
Joined
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Messages
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Age
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Waynesburg, PA
Definitely no pressure.,, all the pressure translated into a gallon of oil on truck hood. It ended up driving out. I have cylinder on the bench. It is ungodly heavy. Wiper seal is in chunks so rotten.

I've rebuilt a handful of cylinders, but never had a pin fight like this one.

So I guess, after looking, those sprockets and roller chains keep the bucket level so I don't do a whoop-Dee-do and dump myself out? Is that all they are for? Couldn't they have devised something better? It goes thru entire boom, both sections.
I'm dreading replacing hydraulic lines in the future, looks like a huge pain.
 
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