"Bread & Milk Emma...It's A STORM !! "

[logbutcher]

It's always...bread,milk and eggs.

Do people crave french toast during a storm?

How'd you know ??

STORM update: the front has just passed. Total of 9.5" on the flat at 1915 H , and Earl (damn him, will not get the micro brew held ) hasn't arrived in his F350 dually.

We can get out with our AWD Foresters ( you're forgiven for the diss Gary :mad2, butt the temps are dropping to the singles tonight. The wet snow will harden, and we will be pi$$ed.

STORM CENTER closed for the duration. Thank you for your support.:amazed:

Update II 2230 H : Damn Earl hasn't shown up with his F350 dually with the articulated Fisher. Oh what to do, what to do. Down in the high teens and getting messy. If I call him, Gayle will yell at me. Christian the German Shepherd will not lick me. Woe. This is a real STORM.

 

[shades2914]

weathermen preaching doomsday =ratings
just like everything else it all has to do with money. more ratings more money. i get my weather from noaa.gov, not always right but they are closer than the local news media outfits. they dont make their money by ratings, its my taxes.........might as well use it.

 

[turnkey4099]

Yep, I call them the RUN, HIDE!! reports.

Harry K

 

[Garmins dad]

hey, if things ever got that bad and a storm like "the day after" movie ever hit, you can always eat the family pets and when they're gone you can always eat the neighbors.

If you eat dumb neighbors do you become dumb?? :hmm3grin2orange::msp_sneaky:

I would eat my pets last.. They help me bring food home.. and when they fart they keep my house warm...

 

[zogger]

Olympic scoring

Couple years ago my housecleaning lady was mumbling about her 17 yoa son who had made flying 50mile trip. Said he'd been doing 65. roads snowcovered and slick. She ha got on him about "But Moooommm. I didn't ahve an accident and drive better than you do".

I live right on a major highway and get lots of slide offs, rollovrs etc near. Last count is 5 through the gaurdrail into a deep ditch directly in front of my house. I've lost track of how many within a mile each way. First snow always gets them. Seems they don't remember their experience last winter.

T'aint just the southern tansplants. Natives do it also, too fast, to close together, eyes firmly locked on the bumper directly ahead of them... And those are the "good" drivers.

When asked about how fast to drive on bad roads, I tell htem. Slow down till you feel comfortable and then cut that in half and you'll be about right.

Harry K

True story, wish I had pics/vids, this was hilarious. So back in the 80s I moved to georgia and this was my first winter here, and it so happened they had a killer cold snap combined with wet rain/slush snow, so it was glare ice all over, I mean all over, for the morning commute.

Now me, I know enough to not drive on that stuff, so I stayed home. I lived down the block from this steep hill, and sure enough, all kindsa folks out trying to navigate and crunching up. So, I had this idea, quick made a bunch of olympic score cards (9/7, 6/5, etc) with some typing paper and magic marker, went and got my lawn chair and sat off to the side at the bottom of the hill and I scored the wipeouts! BWAHAHAHAHA most fun I had in years and most of the people laughed about it when they got outta their cars. Come over the crest of the hill, they hit the ice, nice slooping slides down, kerchunk into something, another car, off the road, etc. Much hilarious car carnage. No one was getting hurt, just non stop fender benders. And then, no one could get back up the hill. This goes on for like two hours until finally the roads start to melt out a little.

Only one guy made it! Man, he was mean looking too, just glowering at us, us being me and the now all laughing drivers all hanging out.. He comes over the hill in some old ford boat, sees the carnage, sorta scoots off to the side, slides by them! So far, so good, then he punches it, wide open, flat out! Freaking clouds of smoke steam, car going around.. dunno, real slow, about point .5 MPH, something like that, but he persevered and *burned* his way back up that hill on the other side. He just couldn't have had much tread left at all, no idea how far he made it after that. I didn't even score him...no crunch, no score!

 

[Gap Goat]

True That Zogger

I have spent the majority of my career in the ski resort areas of WNC. We get all the Southern drivers here and based on experience I can tell you that the folks from Georgia are the worst winter/snow drivers of them all. I can’t count the times it has cost them $$$ to have the tow truck driver get out of his vehicle and into their vehicle, put it into four wheel drive and pull it back onto the road…

Any war story at 0300 that starts with "this vehicle with a GA registration" is going to contain "stuck in snow"

 

[zogger]

Every time!

I have spent the majority of my career in the ski resort areas of WNC. We get all the Southern drivers here and based on experience I can tell you that the folks from Georgia are the worst winter/snow drivers of them all. I can’t count the times it has cost them $$$ to have the tow truck driver get out of his vehicle and into their vehicle, put it into four wheel drive and pull it back onto the road…

Any war story at 0300 that starts with "this vehicle with a GA registration" is going to contain "stuck in snow"

--without exception, every snow or ice storm here, thousands of vehicles in fender benders and/or off in the ditch!

You got some of the world's best offroad trucks and drivers here, but on the road, a few inches of snow and some ice, whoo whee...epic fail!

 

[slowp]

Could it be because on ice one has to drive gently? Slowly accelerate, plan for braking and pretend like your foot is resting on an egg?

I was nervous for a week last winter. I had to go up and then even scarier, back down a road of ice.
I had a 4x4 with studded tires, but I still crept down that road. There is a steep drop off in a lot of places, so I wanted to stay on the road. Slow and gentle is the way to go downhill on that scary stuff.

I almost put on the chains.

 

[zogger]

That's good

Could it be because on ice one has to drive gently? Slowly accelerate, plan for braking and pretend like your foot is resting on an egg?

I was nervous for a week last winter. I had to go up and then even scarier, back down a road of ice.
I had a 4x4 with studded tires, but I still crept down that road. There is a steep drop off in a lot of places, so I wanted to stay on the road. Slow and gentle is the way to go downhill on that scary stuff.

I almost put on the chains.

That's sound thinking, just that tech is pretty much non existent here, plus, with only few exceptions, they don't spread salt on the roads or plow. They hit some bridges and overpasses, that's it. Studded snow tires, etc, and even chains are like hens teeth..I don't even think it is legal here to use studded snowtires, and chains are rarely used and most people don't own them, but I'd have to look at the regs to be sure on the studs, but I don't recall seeing any for sale or on the road anyplace. I know I don't own any, I just don't drive here when it is snowy or icy, problem solved. Up north when I lived there, sure, down here, for twice a winter or something, meh.

It's not setup for winter here when it comes to driving, there just isn't that much snow, so when it happens, it turns into fender bender city. And regular 4wd stuff is just as slippery as 2wd on ice, no traction means no traction.

They are sorta nuts here on closings, schools and some places close when they know the roads will be rank, but so many employers insist their employees try to make it to work, and in this economy, they just try to. It's lame, but it happens. People do the best they can, but.....crunch!

 

[logbutcher]

STORM ! Update

Update on the STORM! The final tally was barely 10" of crud-wet, thick, over unfrozen ground.
Got out ( unneeded really) to the P.O. for SWMBO's lated Netflix chick flick ( I have no power on choice) slip sliding just to make up the 2 hills on this mile long dirt drive to a badly plowed, unsanded road.

The F350 finally came, Earl whining that his truck broke on the first drive, so he had to wait to borrow dad's ( Earl sr. ) single F350. They hate plowing when the ground is soft: the plow digs into soft gravel, stops the truck and F's up the hydraulics. It's why we don't plow ourselves.

Thanksgiving was as usual the forgiving holiday we love in America. Friends on MDI (Mt Desert Island), too much food and wine, near food coma attacks for all.

STORM! over. It is now up to 41 F, melting muck, butt sunny.

Since too many plead out their most personal doings a la Facebook, Twitter, ad nauseum, I thought you'd all want to know. This is as far as we go with this kaa-kaa. The prosRate info will come. :msp_w00t:

P.S. The all-season Michelins on the AWD Forester were PITA in this crud. Fishtailing, sliding, ditch avoidance, no steering. And SlowP, I was careful and slow ! Did no good.

Anyone with advice on real studless snow tires ? Maybe the guys sleeping with that "80 hour burn" wonder stove could tell.

 

[zogger]

Rubber

P.S. The all-season Michelins on the AWD Forester were PITA in this crud. Fishtailing, sliding, ditch avoidance, no steering.

Anyone with advice on real studless snow tires ?

Do they even make hard rubber winter snow tires anymore? Since they switched to everyone insists on driving a vehicle capable of 200MPH, the rubber for tires has to be made soft, sticky. So you could have a tire that *looked* like snow tread, but it has summer "high performance hot rod" composition rubber.

I don't know the answer to that question either, but that is my guess if you can't find snowtires that work. Used to be everyone had two sets, summer, then winter tires with deep hard snow tread, I remember I always did, so did my dad, neighbors, friends, friends dad's, etc, at least for the rear drive wheels. People don't do that anymore up north? It was quite common back in the 70s when I lived in Maine.

"All season" just sounds silly on the face of it, like a marketing gimmick. The road surface and driving conditions vary a lot, I can't see where a "one size fits nothing exactly" style tire/tread and rubber composition would work very well.

It's like down here, you either buy *real* mud tires and put up with them on hard surface driving (and are smart enough to not try and use them on ice or snow, 4wd or not), or you get a poser mud tire "all season" joke look alike tire, that will leave you waiting for the dude with the winch to come by. Right now, that's all I have on my project truck, mud tire look similar wannabes, and I know the difference. Eventually a diff set of rims with real mudders on them, as the bulk of this truck's work will be offroad, not "offroad two hours on the weekends, and have to commute on hard surface anytime besides that".

So, I dunno man..hit the junkyard, get you another set of rims,(stock, steel, cheap, etc) get whatever passes for a real snow tire now for the winter, swap back and forth with the seasons and be done with it.

 

[Dalmatian90]

People don't do that anymore up north?

Very, VERY rarely, and I haven't even seen what I'd consider a traditional snow tread in maybe 15 years looking at other folks tires. The aggressive tires I've seen are Mud + Snow so they're not necessarily optimizing the rubber for winter temps.

Like most stuff, the more money you're willing to spend the better performance you get. I've used Cooper, Goodyear, and Michelin All Seasons in the last ten years (sometimes buying them used when I couldn't afford new sneakers) and they all get the job done. Certainly you're not going to use the old fashion snow tire tread on front-wheel drive cars, and good all seasons perform credibly without buying a season-specific set of tires for 99% of the folks out there.

But some just have a nicer feel as you're plowing through puddles you didn't see coming, or slamming up a driveway that's bumper deep on my 4wd Ranger. I really like my current Michelin LTX A/T2 (but they're only the second best tires I've owned; my LTX A/Ts that I owned in the late 90s were more aggressive, I was disappointed Michelin compromised their off-road/snow performance for a bit quieter ride with the latest version.)

 

[Gologit]

Tires for snow? If you're going to be in snow, or even mud, a lot try these. Drive them on drive pavement, especially in hot weather and you'll burn the tread off in short order. We use these on a couple of rigs that stay in the woods most of the time and they work great.

The ad is for example and reference only. We found ours at a surplus yard.



NDCC Military Jeep Tires

 

[slowp]

I have always had all season tires on my Subarus. I never have used studded tires on them. I've never run into any problems and have actually pushed snow. I've given rides home to people during storms. They go. I don't drive fast, I don't drive aggressively, I putt along in a Subaru in snow and slush. Subarus do well at putting speed, in spite of what the commercials show. My first one went up the woods roads better than the Ford Bronco I had to drive for work.

Right now, I think my old Outback needs some work. It has a distinct shimmy, and that might have been helped along by all the huckleberry picking expeditions.

The roads in the woods are plowed, if log hauling or snowmobiling is going on, but there is no salt, no chemicals and no sand. So ice is icy and you'd better drive gently on it.

 

[turnkey4099]

Do they even make hard rubber winter snow tires anymore? Since they switched to everyone insists on driving a vehicle capable of 200MPH, the rubber for tires has to be made soft, sticky. So you could have a tire that *looked* like snow tread, but it has summer "high performance hot rod" composition rubber.

I don't know the answer to that question either, but that is my guess if you can't find snowtires that work. Used to be everyone had two sets, summer, then winter tires with deep hard snow tread, I remember I always did, so did my dad, neighbors, friends, friends dad's, etc, at least for the rear drive wheels. People don't do that anymore up north? It was quite common back in the 70s when I lived in Maine.

"All season" just sounds silly on the face of it, like a marketing gimmick. The road surface and driving conditions vary a lot, I can't see where a "one size fits nothing exactly" style tire/tread and rubber composition would work very well.

It's like down here, you either buy *real* mud tires and put up with them on hard surface driving (and are smart enough to not try and use them on ice or snow, 4wd or not), or you get a poser mud tire "all season" joke look alike tire, that will leave you waiting for the dude with the winch to come by. Right now, that's all I have on my project truck, mud tire look similar wannabes, and I know the difference. Eventually a diff set of rims with real mudders on them, as the bulk of this truck's work will be offroad, not "offroad two hours on the weekends, and have to commute on hard surface anytime besides that".

So, I dunno man..hit the junkyard, get you another set of rims,(stock, steel, cheap, etc) get whatever passes for a real snow tire now for the winter, swap back and forth with the seasons and be done with it.

All seasons: Yep, had them on one car, a 70s something baby pontiac IIRC. Great tires. Wife insisted on a Christmas visit to SIL who lived by a mountain lake outside Kamloops B.C. No problem getting there, 20 when I left here and bare/dry roads for th 400 miles there. 4 days later temps came up and we got somewhere around 1' - 1.5' snow overnight. Left the next morning on unplowed roads, pushed snow with my bumper all the way down the mountain, some 15 miles. Drove snow, ice all the way back with dense fog thrown in for one stretch. Those tires never quit biting, even when I had to plow across a plow berm in a town.

Studs: Had them for many, many years. Current studies say that non-studded snow tires are superior in all conditions except glare ice and are only marginally less effective than studs then.

Current car is on studless snows.

My fun day was in San Angelo TX. Got an ice storm one night leaving around 1/4 over everything. I decided to go to work anyhow on regular tires (down there noone runs winter tires). Headed out and came to a down slope leading into a mile upslope about 1/2 mile long. Cars spun out the full length. Clear path in the middle so I just gently (very) eased on up. People all over staring "How the H E doublt toothpicks is he doing that!?". Meanwhile I could hear the BUZZZZ! of spinning tires.

Why do people think that adding gas when you are stuck is going to improve anything? I learned better from my old man. He proved over and over dthat that doesn't work. Gauranteed that if he got stuck in mud,he would be down to the axle before he quit. Clue one in bad conditions. Never let your tires spin. If they start, back off!

Harry K

 

[Steve NW WI]

Snow tires are still around. I run good all-season tires on the commuter car, they work well enough for me, and not worth the hassle of changing tires 2x a year or burning up spendy snow tires in the summer, but if you want a set of winter tires, it's hard to go wrong with the Bridgestone Blizzaks. A car I used to have came with em, and was surefooted as a Grand Canyon mule with em on, but they only lasted about 20K miles year round driving.

Here's a shot of the tread, notice all the siping (tiny grooves) in the tread, they give all the extra bite on snow and ice:

On trucks, a tall, SKINNY mud terrain is great in snow, but pretty limited dealing with ice. I have a pair of chains I've used a couple times on the front of the old Chev when I absolutely, positively had to get there. Hate em with a passion though, and if 4WD won't get me there, I probably ain't going.

 

[logbutcher]

Thanks for the tire advice boys and girl. It all makes good sense.

The all seasons are not all-season around here. The mile of dirt road to get to hardtop, this small town ( year-round pop. ~ 875 ) stalls plowing and sanding/salting to save a few $$$$, and of course the usual winters make for some challenges. 95% of the time we manage with the wonders of the Subaru's AWD. The Subbies are low, barely 8" clearance. With any average snowfall it's common to ground out or plow without a plow. We usually wait for the drive and roads to clear, and drive like Slowp says, slow and careful, allowing the gibones to pass and slide off (shadenfreude).

Unfortunately Ms. SWMBO "Emma" says that we're not going to spend the +/- $600. for a set of grippy Blizzaks with wheels ( Michelin IceX, General Arctic, Dunlop Graspic, etc...) as I want/need/recommend for the 2 Foresters. Not in this economy. We can wait. I can wait. It's an order.:redface:

Maybe the move to warmer climes like B.C., or Connecticut, or Georgia, or Nebraska are in the future. :jester:

P.S. Got to keep this on the wood topic. Just reached the first cord ( real 4' x4' x 8' ) used for heating yesterday. Average use so far.

 

[1project2many]

I started out looking for snows for my old Mercedes bomber this fall. If the weather's real bad I'll take the truck but I'd like to have something with a bit of grip just the same. I bought four good used Kelley Explorers which will have to do for now but I'm still going to keep an eye out for some snows for the rear. I used to do that with my old Cavalier. I had some good winter snows for that car and it made a real difference. I've even run chains on the front of a Cavalier. I don't mind swapping tires but I have my own tire machine and balancer so I don't have to pay the tire shop's exorbitant price for mounting and balancing, then return for rebalancing or leak fix because it wasn't done right to begin with.

For those who need to know, you don't buy studded tires. You buy studdable tires and have the tire shop install studs. Nokian makes some killer tires for snow but they don't cover all sizes and they're costly when new. Craigslist is an awesome place for tire deals. Especially for snow tires. "We sold the car and we just need these out of the way." Same for used wheels. Seems like plenty of folks think it's new or nothing which leaves more selection for people like me.

BTW, don't wait too long to buy tires if ya think you need new. Tire prices seem to rise almost monthly and they're projected to go up a bunch over next year. Rubber is more valuable than oil.

The "Ends" pile will be finished today so tomorrow I'll be starting into the woodshed. It ought to be interesting this year. I've got bunches of small diameter wood mixed in with big chunks of Black Locust. And the rest of that Elm I don't like. But it all keeps me warm in a storm.

 

[turnkey4099]

Just started the second 6'x12'x16" rick on the back porch, plus the 'ugly pile (small)' and some odds and ends. About 1 cord total so far. I was hoping to use less seeing it is locust and my first year of burning only locust.

Harry K

 

[zogger]

Well, yesterday it was *just* this side of big flood potential, another 1/2 inch or so and the roads would have over run from the ditches backing up. Our creek made it to the very top of the banks but held without the fields flooding, but it is serious mud city now, no going down there to get any more wood for awhile...however..today the weather guessers have predicted our first snow of the season! Pretty early for us here, looking forward to it. It'll ice tonight so tomorrow will be branches down all over no doubt.

Quick, go get bread and milk!

oops, too late, already got some...

I got no reason to go panic buy anything....hmm..must be something... err wait, you need money to go panic buy..problem solved! HAHAHAHA