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Chain grinder setup

mountainlake

mountainlake

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Hook comes from tilt, not depth. Sharpen the cutter then back it away and clean out the gullet.



If you don't get the wheel low enough you won't have any hook . The OP has his grinder set up perfect with good hook on the side of the tooth. . I've had chains come to me wouldn't cut following 0regons directions with no hook on the side plate. Steve
 
Short timer

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If you don't get the wheel low enough you won't have any hook . The OP has his grinder set up perfect with good hook on the side of the tooth. . I've had chains come to me wouldn't cut following 0regons directions with no hook on the side plate. Steve
It’ll work but won’t be as sharp as a hand filed chain because as stated, you’re losing the “hollow ground”. Your better off backing the wheel off a hair after sharpening the cutter so it doesn’t contact the area the cutter actually contacts the wood if that’s what you’re after. Also every time you switch between touching up with a file and grinding, you’re wasting cutter length.

To each his own.
 
mountainlake

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It’ll work but won’t be as sharp as a hand filed chain because as stated, you’re losing the “hollow ground”. Your better off backing the wheel off a hair after sharpening the cutter so it doesn’t contact the area the cutter actually contacts the wood if that’s what you’re after. Also every time you switch between touching up with a file and grinding, you’re wasting cutter length.

To each his own.

There is no way your going to hollow grind a chain with with a wheel, you would have to have the height adjusted to within a thousands of a inch. If your hollow grind is so important why do square grind chains cut faster. Steve
 
HarleyT

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Philbert

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Philberts images are just coming from the Oregon manual (which I threw away after reading that bs} Oregon is just worried about liability in that manual not wanting a aggressive chain that actually cuts. Steve
Philbert adapted those images from one in the Oregon manual, but they are his. What would Oregon know? They only invented this chain 75 years ago, and probably have more than a million man-hours in research, testing, etc.

The bottom line is: decide what you want your cutters to look like, then decide on how you are going to get there. If you like a round filed chain, try to duplicate that. If you like the way that your chain cuts with the grinding wheel driven deep into the gullets, then file that way too, using a 'goofy file'.

Goofy File Round File Grind.png

Why does square ground chain cut faster, the cutters are the same as getting the wheel low enough so the side of the wheel hits the face of the tooth.
If you don't get the wheel low enough you won't have any hook .
Square ground / filed chains are different in many ways:
- the top plate angle is typically 15° instead of 30°
- they have very little 'hook '(maybe 5°)
- top plate bevel angle is closer to 45° than 60°
- side plate bevel angle is also steeper

Screen shot 2020-10-17 at 10.18.59 AM.png




There is no way your going to hollow grind a chain with with a whee . . .If your hollow grind is so important why do square grind chains cut faster.

Driving the grinding wheel down farther, for round ground chain, not only removes the hollow grind on the top plate angle, but flattens out the bevel on the side plate angle, essentially making it 'duller'.

Philbert
 
mountainlake

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As I said you are not going to get a hollow ground tooth from a grinding wheel , exactly what is wrong with getting results like square filing. My chains cut like crazy and my customers like them. Phil, you are exaggerating your diagrams a LOT on the top 2 again. IF you look at the OP pics that's the way a grinder should be set up and the only possible way those chains wont cut really good is if the rakers are too high. Steve
 
Philbert

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. . . you are exaggerating your diagrams a LOT on the top 2 again.
Of course they are 'exaggerated': they are illustrations to make a point that is hard to see.

As I said you are not going to get a hollow ground tooth from a grinding wheel . . .
This is a chain I sharpened today, experimenting with a few different grinders: 511A, 'clone', and even HF (trying some new wheels). The exact profiles may vary with the wheel diameter, wheel thickness, wheel edge profile, and grinder geometry (what point of the wheel circumference touches the cutter).

First pass to get the cutting edges.Second pass to 'clean the gullet'. Have not done the depth gauges yet.
IMG_0320.jpg

More importantly, here is what it looks like with a file in place. These chains get filed in the field, then brought to me to to clean up and 'even out', if they hit a rock, or the user just does not file well. If I create a separate cutter profile with the grinding wheel, it will take them several strokes, and waste a lot of cutter life, just to re-shape the cutters, before they start to sharpen any cutting edges

IMG_0326.jpg

That's why I say, 'grind as you file and file as you grind', especially if you do both. And if you really like the way your chains cut with a deep grinder dive, they file with the 'goofy' files (if you can find them).

Philbert
 
mountainlake

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Your getting your grinding wheel quite a bit lower than what the oregon directions say, almost like the OP. With those directions you'll end up little or no hook on the side plate resulting in chain that wont cut good. Steve
 
Philbert

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Your getting your grinding wheel quite a bit lower than what the oregon directions say, almost like the OP. With those directions you'll end up little or no hook on the side plate resulting in chain that wont cut good. Steve
Grinding wheel is set just like in my illustrations. I blend it into the gullet with second pass(s) to eliminate any sharp points. Again, see how the file fits.

Philbert
 
vtfireman85

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I assume by hook you all mean this shape? I presumed I was getting sufficient hook by using the 60 degree setting and having the stone dressed round? Ive been sharpening chain for many years but have never had the benefit of professional input before. If you all want to talk sharpening skis, i can go on all day.
I can see that i might be wasting chain.. its not a huge deal to me, I would rather waste a but and have good performance. Ive never sharpened a chain and thought well that is dull, it’s always better than it was.. maybe not as good as it could be though ... hopefully i can improve.
 

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Philbert

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I assume by hook you all mean this shape?
Yes.

You can see the marks stamped on the top and the side of that cutter, which indicate STIHL's recommendation for the cutter profile, as well as being 'end-of-life' wear marks.

More 'hook' (an informal term) can be obtained by lowering the file height; by using a smaller diameter file, or by reducing the angle of the chain grinder head (e.g. 50° creates more hook than 60°, if you have room to get the wheel in there.

More hook will produce a more aggressive chain, which some users like. At moderate levels it can create a 'self-feeding' chain, where the saw pulls itself into the wood. At more extreme levels, it can make the chain 'grabby', and the saw hard to control. Some of this also depends on the type of wood, and the type of cutting you are doing with the chain. A lot of hook is not good for limbing, but might be OK for bucking large rounds, if the saw can handle it.

Start out by 'matching' the type(s) of chain you like cutting with. Once you can get what you want, you can try experimenting with different angles, profiles, etc., to see if you like something different.

Philbert
 

Philbert

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Do you clean your chains before grinding? If so what do you clean them in. Currently i just blow them off with air
Welcome to A.S.!

My method is described in this thread:


Philbert
 
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