Change Climbing Style? - Blakes to Knut

[xtremetrees]

I need to remeber the TLH (taughtline hitch) may have better or more abilitites than the blakes.
Say you have a 10 foot spikelss climb to make. You throw your rope over the limb and begin pulling yourself to say 7 feet, then tie a TLH in mid air. You can do this knot on a loaded rope (3 below one above) better than you can tie a blakes. Faster to.

 

[Stumper]

XTreme. Think ahead.

Fireaxman, For the saddle style you are using-a Spreader snap is the proper attachment. Been there, Done that. Burned the T-shirt. If you can possibly afford it I recommend changing saddles. Attaching more than one bit of gear in the same D is frowned upon (for good reasons) I climbed for several years on a saddle like you have using a spreader snap for my climbing line and snaps on my lanyard hooking into the same Ds---- It worked, and I survived- but I would not go back to that system-it was discantnued fro a reason. By the way how old is your saddle? Most of us ignore things like manufacturer's instructions but they do say we should pull saddles from service if they are over 5 years old.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

xtreme,

You're describing a free-climb, not being tied in to get to the 7' height. This is not allowed. The climber must be secured, ie. tied-in, when they leave the ground.

The TLH can be tied on a tensioned rope, which you're illustrating. But the scenario is one that should NEVER be encountered.

 

[skwerl]

I used a basic buttstrap saddle for years and always used one clip on the rope to attach to both lower D rings. When I started with the advanced hitches I attached the carabiner to the saddle in the same way. I just hope that Fireaxeman's phobia of aluminum tripe lock carabiners doesn't prevent him from embracing advanced hitches, but it's looking that way.

The double locking spreader snap is a heavy and clunky addition which will inhibit the smooth operation of the Distel or VT hitch and place the hitch further away from the body. One of the biggest reasons for change is reduced weight but the double spreader adds unneccessary weight and bulk. If you don't trust the triple locking biners embraced by the industry, you might as well stick with the Blake's.

 

[Stumper]

The double locking spreader snap is a heavy and clunky addition which will inhibit the smooth operation of the Distel or VT hitch and place the hitch further away from the body. One of the biggest reasons for change is reduced weight but the double spreader adds unneccessary weight and bulk. If you don't trust the triple locking biners embraced by the industry, you might as well stick with the Blake's.

Correct, Which is why I think he ought to get a better saddle. If he wants a basic buttstrap that is okay but it ought to have more Ds. The spreader added a lot of comfort to my old Bashlin-but I was also at the upper end of the medium sizing back then and a single clip on both Ds squeezed me uncomfortably. My personal analysis is that 'biners are the best way to handle a climbing line set up and snaps are better on lanyards/fliplines. Fear of 'biners is unreasonable.

 

[Fireaxman]

Stumper - Ooops! I bought the saddle new in 1985. Treated it like my life depended on it, kept it indoors, carried it in a special bag to keep it seperate from anything sharp. It owes me nothing, but it has become a close freind. Hate to drop it for a flashier model. But you've got me looking at it with a magnifying glass tonight. Stayed in it about 3 hours this afternoon and it still feels comfortable. I did try a freinds 6" locking snap today, but the left butt strap D ring was uncomfortably close to the gate.

I trust the locking 'biners 100% on a streight pull. But they came with a warning not to load the gate.

 

[Fireaxman]

What about putting a figure 8 descender ring between the D's with a couple of small 'biners? Yeah, its more junk, but probably lighter and more flexible than the spreader snaps.

I could buy a new saddle. But it's the shopping I hate more than the cost. No arborist supply store anywhere close, and I hate to make such a major purchase out of a catalog without trying it on.

 

[Fireaxman]

Short rope between the D's! :bang: Makes me feel pretty stupid for making it so complicated! Thanks, Treeco.

 

[pantheraba]

The rope sounds interesting...probably simpler than what I did. Before I got my New Tribe, I had a similar saddle. I used 4 biners between the D's...kept the gates opposite and inverted from each other. It went D, 2 opposed biners beside each other, those 2 locked into the next side by side biners and they were snapped to the other D...that way I was always snapped into 2 biners with my climbing line.

But, whenever I used 2 climbing lines it got pretty gear intensive at the attachment point. The New Tribe has been a big improvement.

 

[xtremetrees]

Tom I suppose your right. I need to use the TLH more often than I do.
Pan and Tree Co,.
Some dill weed went thru a neighborhood in Stone mnt wenching trees and felling them into booby trap situations. I mean bad 30 inch pines 4 of which are laying onto a 20 inch leaning it to a 39 degree angle.The most pressureized part of the 20 inch tree is about 30 feet up. Its about 90 feet tall and the neighbors house is about 40 feet away.
The only way is to fly onto the booby trap. Ive thopught of the short 30 foot climb and cut it all free above my head, But it I cut something free the resulting log falling onto the already pressurized tree im on at 30 feet it could fail.
I've thought about calling in the expert like you guys, lol, alas, the jobs Tuesday.
If I catch this dill weed making booby traps in the sky, I'll just laff.

 

[NickfromWI]

Let's see a pic of the Mitchoacan. A newly invented knot? This is the info we gotta be sharing around here!

Fireaxman, you're on the right track. I'll PM you about the split tails. Just so you know, and many here will agree, the most affordable way to tie the advanced hitches is to buy some appropriate cordage and tie double overhand, double fishermans, grapevine, scaffold knots to form eyes. The splices form a cleaner system.

When joining 2 ends, I call it a double fisherpersons BEND. A double fisherpersons knot is the loop at the end version.

love
nick

 

[Fireaxman]

Make sure of course you know your knots. The scaffold also called double overhand noose would be my knot of choice.

Done, knots as per your recomendation. I like it. I probably wont have a chance to put it in a tree before Monday, but it works great from the loft to the living room floor.

 

[skwerl]

Cool. It takes a short time to learn to trust it, but then you're golden. I came from the tautline hitch and was able to trust/ identify the distel because I could 'see' the tautline within it. I was very happy on the distel for about 6 months and then moved on to the VT. The only real reason for changing was that the distel tended to lock up a bit if I sat on it too long.

It's great that you're expanding your thinking and tools. I'm enjoying it as much as you are. Looking forward to your comments after you've used it.

 

[Fireaxman]

I'm playing with the Distel and the Knut here in the living room, on the rope hung from the loft. The Distel seems to stay dressed a little tighter, and I like that. Like you said, I can SEE how it works. The Knut is spreading out along the the climbing line a little more under load, kind of like the tresses on a VT, but it still grabs hold plenty quick when i put a load on it . The Knut definetly breaks quicker and runs on the climbing line with less friction.

And, I can't get the Distel to self tend very reliably. It comes up a few inches and sticks. The Knut comes up very quickly and easily, even without a pulley (I got no pulley ... yet.)

Obviously I'll have to work each hitch under some various circumstances before I develop a preference, but I'm getting the feeling tonight I might like the Distel for Blue Streak in a false crotch (tighter knot for lower friction setup) but might prefer the Knut for Arboplex in a natural crotch (higher friction setup). I'll probably still use the Blakes for double crotching, because I think it will continue to be easier to tie in the tree and also because I now have so many knots next to my saddle I don't think I'll have room for another Distel.

Nick, there's gotta be something good said about "cleaner system". With my TreeCo re-engineered saddle I'm up to 5 double fish.... oops, I mean scaffold knots ... or is it Bend? in a square foot. I may yet get a new saddle, but my TreeCo modification will let me play long enough to be sure it is worth while.

Great to have an arsenal instead of just one gun. And I ain't even gotten in to the fine tuning yet. Now I get to sight 'em all in. Thanks for all the help.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

The self tending hitches generally make their preceding half hitch from the bottom turn of the coil; and then also restrict some of the pull to the top of the coil (Knut, TK, Icicle).

Distel and Schwab make their preceding half hitch from the turn coming off the top of the coil, and don't restrict the force to the bottom coil; nor are they known for self tending. A cheap keychain carabiner, dog snap etc. can be used for the mechanical tender; this device doesn't need to be up to lifeline strength etc. specifications; for it is not in the chain of support, but beside it.

Climbing system is 2/1; so for every 2' that slide thru hitch you drop 1'; generally plenty of time for a properly set friction hitch to grab host lifeline. Playing and tuning you should be able to find what slides, yet catches well for you. This can change with alteration of style, host line, friction cord etc.; or even worn friction cord can change what you like/ how many turns etc.

Good L.U.C.K. (Labor Under Controlled Knowledge)

Safe Climbing is No Accident; so Live with It!​

 

[NickfromWI]

A bend is when 2 ends of a rope are tied together to form a longer rope or a loop out of a rope.

Keep playing around with it. You know, you can use the carabiner you're clipping the friction hitch to as a slack tender. Click here tending.avi and you can see what I mean.

love
nick

 

[Fireaxman]

You know, you can use the carabiner you're clipping the friction hitch to as a slack tender. Click here tending.avi and you can see what I mean.

love
nick

Nick, that is a Very Good trick. Thanks.

 

[pantheraba]

You know, you can use the carabiner you're clipping the friction hitch to as a slack tender. Click here tending.avi and you can see what I mean.

Nick, I have read about that but did not understand until now...thanks for showing how the krab can be a slack tender like that.

 

[Stumper]

The only concern I have about that system is that it moves a load bearing leg of the cord far fron the carabiner spine. HMS style 'biners are good for our usage because they are designed for loads that aren't hard against the spine but I still try to keep my cord as close as possible to being in the "natural center" where a single rope would naturally center itself under load if there is no interference.
BTW-does anyone else think that the Petzl William has a very crappy shape for load distribution? I love the shape of the Omega Jake with its nice, fat, round end that centers everything smoothly and seems to be engineered to bear its loads with great consistency and more even distribution of weight on the spine from both legs of a tress cord.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i've done like that, not as much pulling distance as when tender is farther away and more play; but good fer a lot of things that tail is not loaded as it reeves thropugh krab. But krab should not be so wide that your Friction Hitch can slip through, and tender is positioned on top of it!