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Chinese seals & bearings

Discussion in 'Modded Work Saws' started by tree_chomper, Jul 11, 2015.

  1. tree_chomper

    tree_chomper ArboristSite Operative

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    Anyone tried them in any stihl applications?
     
  2. trappermike

    trappermike ArboristSite Guru

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    Avoid using any Chinese bearings,they are of notoriously poor quality,seals no better. Go to your local dealer that sells bearings and seals. Give him an old seal and measure the crank diameter,seal hole size in crankcase and width of the seal. Then be sure to specify a double-lip seal or you will likely get a single lip seal. As for the bearings there will be a number on them(And in the parts book)such as 6202,6203 etc, Then specify for the the bearings that they come with the teflon(Or plastic) cage,this is crucial!!! Especially for Huskys and Jonsereds which were still fitted from factory with metal cage bearings,and these type have a much higher failure rate. The bearings with teflon cages can tolerate higher revs,and do NOT destroy the piston and cylinder in a cage failure,in fact I haven't seen any blow... Then make sure the bearings are a good known brand. Buying your bearings and seals this way is cheaper too!
     
  3. tree_chomper

    tree_chomper ArboristSite Operative

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    Yea I understand this is the way to go I agree. Was just trying to get input from people that have personally tried the Chinese seals or bearings. I know of 1 guy that has used chinese seals in several saws. He says he has had no issues as long as care is taken during installation. I'm not condoning the use of Chinese parts by any means, I'm just curious
     
  4. trappermike

    trappermike ArboristSite Guru

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    Well,buying your bearings and seals from a local bearing supply company is still FAR cheaper than purchasing factory original for the very same brand bearings,and some do not sell you the better teflon cage bearing. We had one large company running 365's for slashing brush,and many had main bearing failure from over-revving on fairly new saws,but these saws had the metal cage bearings,I rebuilt these to the teflon cage bearings and none came back.
    But as a mechanic I saw various things with Chinese bearings and they failed very quickly.
     
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  5. tree_chomper

    tree_chomper ArboristSite Operative

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    So you personally have tried the Chinese bearings before? Used them in any stihls?
     
  6. trappermike

    trappermike ArboristSite Guru

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    I would NEVER put them in a saw! I encountered them in various machines and they were always destroyed.Risk your saw to save only a few dollars?
    Why wouldn't a person just buy his bearings from your local bearings dealer,far less cost than original bearings and the same thing.
    Also if your old bearings had a metal cage you can order bearings with the "teflon" cages,They can handle more revs and last longer. Also when a main bearing fails in a saw you will see the metal bearing cage all bent and piled up and usually it's pieces of the cage that get pumped up into the cylinder and cause piston/cylinder damage.It's the cage that causes most bearing failures.
    Also another real secret about bearings- They are all also rated C1,C2,or C3,that refers to the clearance of the ball bearings,how "tight" the bearings are. Stihl told me that they use a tighter bearing than Husky/Jonsered does.
    It used to show in the parts books for husky and Stihl, for the bearing you would see a C2 or C3 number.I don't know if the parts pages for them now do that.. It would be good to investigate that because if Stihl was using a tighter bearing I would be using that style in other saws too. When you get a new bearing it has the C number on the box and the bearing too I think. It's been many years now but i think Stihls used a C2 bearing and Huskys C3. C1 would be too tight for high speed and high heat apllications.
    I do know that I saw far less bearing failures in Stihls than Huskies,only a few over very many years...
    In fact the best bearing set-ups,have no cage a all! Mercury marine engines use all needle bearings on the crank,and the big end and piston pin end of the con rod. No cages. But what a job to assemble,on a 4 cylinder motors I rebuilt there something like 600 needle bearing total to install!(All glued in place with grease and your hands can't tremble or you spill the needles all over) In most applications(Not main bearing-ball bearing assemblies we use on saws) the cage is there simlply for ease of installation.Without the cage you can fit almost twice as many needles,rollers,or balls into the application and this increases the load carrying ability accordingly. They even sell ball bearing assemblies with no cage,all balls inside. But I've checked and they don't make those bearings quite as small as the 6202 or 6203 bearings most commonly used in saws. But I have built some competition saws with full needle bearings and no cages,they will never fail...
     
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  7. weimedog

    weimedog Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I still have a pile of old merc stuff.. Love the old ones..:) Have a mk58a on a short lower unit waiting for the right application.
     
  8. tree_chomper

    tree_chomper ArboristSite Operative

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    Like I said, I was curious. Never said I was buying them lmao.. just curious of people's encounters with Chinese bearings. I must note I have seen my fair share of factory stihl and husqvarna bearing that have failed as well.
     
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  9. weimedog

    weimedog Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Tough call here. I can tell "trappermike" knows his chit. ANY one who understands and have worked on those old mercs can't be all that bad! I understand the grading system and all that. Two years ago I would never have thought of using anything but OEM recommended bearings & seals. AND when in doubt, OEM is ALWAYS the safest call. But my Huztl 372 & those MS660's project saws have Chinese bearings & seals. Huztl saw has a significant amount of really hard time, especially last winter when the temperatures were Sooo cooold! No problems yet. And the "Nylon caged" OEM bearings for early 372 X-torqs were at one time blamed for premature failures on the clutch side ... was it real?? I don't know. All I can do is speculate AND report my experiences both good and bad. Huztl saw is still cutting at a furious rate.

    I guess my cut is if you are building a saw from scratch buy the best bearings and seals you can afford. If you have a saw or bought a saw built with Huztl/Chinese seals I wouldn't be afraid of it as I have seen nothing to make me want to dive in and replace those bearings and seals I have in my Chinese saws.
     
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  10. Definitive Dave

    Definitive Dave wanna-be saw racer, saw hoarder, parts whore

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    the voices in my head tell me to buy chainsaws
    Pretending all Chinese bearings are the same is stupid, period. There are bearings manufactured in China that are 100% as good as OEM Stihl bearings. There are also bearings that are junk.
    Many pieces of Stihls and Husqvarna chainsaws are made in China, including the bearings in some models. They will make whatever they are paid to make at a given price point.
    DD
     
  11. weimedog

    weimedog Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Pretending bearings manufactured by brands from any country all have the same quality is misguided. Same metrics. So nothing new there. I do have "favorites" though but hesitate to post them. As for the Chinese bearings, I only have purchased them from one source so far, and they have worked out as I have articulated. They look and feel as good as typical bearings from other sources with ...ratings but I don't have any way to dissect and measure tolerances and Brinell hardness of the components so only can go by how they perform in my saws.
     
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  12. tree_chomper

    tree_chomper ArboristSite Operative

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    Kind of off subject but I have had great success with front wheel hub bearings for my jeep and trailblazer bought straight from china at a ridiculous low price. The ones for the jeep I am very impressed with due to the fact it has 37" tires on it and I wheel the jeep very hard. They've lasted 4 years so far and counting!
     
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  13. weimedog

    weimedog Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Same experience with wheel bearings for a old 1998 Chev 1 ton 4x4 pickup I had and most recently a boat trailer!

     
  14. nitehawk55

    nitehawk55 ArboristSite Operative

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    I've changed wheel bearings in my car and go with SKF over Chinese . Yes they are more but I feel much better knowing they will likely last longer . I did try a Chinese made bearing in a hub and it went out in about a year which is pretty poor .

    Yes the Chinese are getting better at making some decent stuff but the problem is QC and how do you know if it came from the same maker ?
     
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  15. dom1971

    dom1971 ArboristSite Lurker

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    What can you tell me of Hutzl/Farmer Tec bearings today? I need 5 of the grooved bearings. The OEM are MTN made in Japan and iI keep getting saws with these bearings seized. the other side is a 6202 FAG bearing at the they seem good. Do you ever tease bearing with motomox oil when re-asembling the chainsaws?
     
  16. dom1971

    dom1971 ArboristSite Lurker

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    Here is a link to the huts listing, for that grooved bearing only made by MTN in Japan. https://www.huztl.net/Aftermarket-S...ring-9523-003-4260-9523-003-4266-p371403.html
     
  17. Huskybill

    Huskybill Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I’m using good bearings/ seals I pre lube the bearings with husky 2t oil. I burnish the cylinder and piston with moly plus add 2t oil when assembling. Then i oil the pin bearing and crank pin with 2t oil too. I put extra oil in the crankcase so when I tilt the saw the crankbearings get oil again. I pre lube the snots out of it. On startup I let the case get fogged with oil.
     

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