treeclimber101
UNCLE BUCK
ho = hiphop officer
Climbing Techniques
- Thread starter Redman-Racer
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ho = hiphop officer
the Aerialist
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've got all the pieces I need ..
Too bad, the video was slick as ... er, well it was very instructional. He used a bungie to advance a Gibbs w/ a foot sling and a pantin on the other foot and just walked up that rope like he was going upstairs.
I'll do a photo of how I have set up my Unicender for SRT ascents but I'm still a bit foggy on it's use for working the tree. I don't want to change over to another setup once I get up there.
Too bad, the video was slick as ... er, well it was very instructional. He used a bungie to advance a Gibbs w/ a foot sling and a pantin on the other foot and just walked up that rope like he was going upstairs.
I'll do a photo of how I have set up my Unicender for SRT ascents but I'm still a bit foggy on it's use for working the tree. I don't want to change over to another setup once I get up there.
the Aerialist
Addicted to ArboristSite
Unicender on SRT ...
The revolver tends the rope and allows an upward pull to adjust slack. This could shift the Unicender closer to me on the harness.
The revolver tends the rope and allows an upward pull to adjust slack. This could shift the Unicender closer to me on the harness.
the Aerialist
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've got to read the Bible ...
Thanks for the tip. I wonder if I can get it online as an eBook so I could read it on my iPad ~ what a sweet little computer. I throw it on the dashboard of my dump truck and take it with me in the field.
I'm going to start a thread on the use of computers and other digital devices in tree work. I'm sort of a semi-geek and much of my business success is directly related to computers and the internet.
I usually climb with two ropes, my main line and a short line I use to maneuver. I hate pulling 200' of rope up and over a limb. I'm thinking use the LockJack on the short rope DRT and the Unicender on a single line SRT.
Thanks for the tip. I wonder if I can get it online as an eBook so I could read it on my iPad ~ what a sweet little computer. I throw it on the dashboard of my dump truck and take it with me in the field.
I'm going to start a thread on the use of computers and other digital devices in tree work. I'm sort of a semi-geek and much of my business success is directly related to computers and the internet.
I usually climb with two ropes, my main line and a short line I use to maneuver. I hate pulling 200' of rope up and over a limb. I'm thinking use the LockJack on the short rope DRT and the Unicender on a single line SRT.
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treemandan
Tree Freak
I like your attitude and even though I still have to refer to you as a :newbie: I like you too! I hope you stick around through the winter.
Just remember to check out the injury and death forum from time to time
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
Not sure about an ebook but I got a used copy in excellent condition off of Amazon a few years back for $10. For $10 you can't go wrong.
the Aerialist
Addicted to ArboristSite
Here's a nugget from upstream in this thread ...
Actually that very similar to my technique in complex trees that I need to maneuver in. I use my long line (200') and my short line (75') in concert to ascend until I get a good TIP for my long line.
I used my LockJack on the long line and a Ushiba (titanium) rope grab on the short line. Both with DRT. I'm doing this on my infamous "spike-trimmer" photo:
I only rarely use a shot bag, I prefer to use a set pole to advance myself up the tree. Using two ropes to do this makes isolating limbs and routing around others safe and easy. I plan a route for the long rope so that I have a good position for the top TIP without pulling 200' of rope over obstructing limbs. The short rope is my maneuvering rope, pulling it over limbs is no big deal and fast.
Of course I look like a Koala Bear after eucalyptus leaves compared to the guy in the video. Wow, I wish I could move like that.
Actually that very similar to my technique in complex trees that I need to maneuver in. I use my long line (200') and my short line (75') in concert to ascend until I get a good TIP for my long line.
I used my LockJack on the long line and a Ushiba (titanium) rope grab on the short line. Both with DRT. I'm doing this on my infamous "spike-trimmer" photo:
I only rarely use a shot bag, I prefer to use a set pole to advance myself up the tree. Using two ropes to do this makes isolating limbs and routing around others safe and easy. I plan a route for the long rope so that I have a good position for the top TIP without pulling 200' of rope over obstructing limbs. The short rope is my maneuvering rope, pulling it over limbs is no big deal and fast.
Of course I look like a Koala Bear after eucalyptus leaves compared to the guy in the video. Wow, I wish I could move like that.
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Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
As promised, here is the link to treestuff.com's bigshot / shotline management package special. Luke made it even sweeter than I had anticipated.
The $200 special includes:
Bigshot
6' pole with rubber boot
Shotline winder with 200 feet of 1.75 mm dyneema & micron clip
Shotbag w/ your preferred weight
AND a dozen pair grippy gloves
Add up the cost of all the individual items and you'll see this is a killer deal.
I wanted him to name it the Master Ropesetting System. What he ended up calling it was not my idea. As long as you guys are getting an excellent setup for an excellent price, it doesn't really matter what it's called.
Here's the link: http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=285&item=996#
The $200 special includes:
Bigshot
6' pole with rubber boot
Shotline winder with 200 feet of 1.75 mm dyneema & micron clip
Shotbag w/ your preferred weight
AND a dozen pair grippy gloves
Add up the cost of all the individual items and you'll see this is a killer deal.
I wanted him to name it the Master Ropesetting System. What he ended up calling it was not my idea. As long as you guys are getting an excellent setup for an excellent price, it doesn't really matter what it's called.
Here's the link: http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=285&item=996#
TreeAce
Addicted to ArboristSite
LOL...sweet. Thats a great set-up at a great price. Names kinda wierd though...:hmm3grin2orange:
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have some pics of Kevin's premier demo at TCIA, Pittsburgh. None of any close-ups, just of him using it in the demo tree. I'll share these, with his permission.
the Aerialist
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm a Rope Wench myself ...
I was there working a booth, too bad I didn't register here before, I could have invited you to come say hello at the RopeArmor booth.
I did see it in a little after hours demo, (not to me) and I did't really get it that he was doing SRT, so the advantage of his "rope wrench" was lost on me at the time. Now that you have enlightened me TM I can see why there is all the interest.
Also I like the spool you have developed TM, and the "Tree Machine" special bundle seems great for those who want the whole kit, BigShot and all. I bookemarked the site.
I was there working a booth, too bad I didn't register here before, I could have invited you to come say hello at the RopeArmor booth.
I did see it in a little after hours demo, (not to me) and I did't really get it that he was doing SRT, so the advantage of his "rope wrench" was lost on me at the time. Now that you have enlightened me TM I can see why there is all the interest.
Also I like the spool you have developed TM, and the "Tree Machine" special bundle seems great for those who want the whole kit, BigShot and all. I bookemarked the site.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
The advantage over all other approaches to SRT is that Kevin's rope wrench allows both up and down abilities, which is unique to SRT and the basis of DdRT. Also, Kevin's rope wrench is a multi-part system, one of the parts being a friction hitch. This is appealing to the tree climbing doubled rope world as we are terribly addicted to the friction hitch, very hard for hitch users to wrap their heads around substituting a mechanical device. The rope wrench system is a hybrid between the two worlds.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
The principle behind the rope wrench is akin to a car's manual clutch system. Your gentle foot pressure on the clutch pedal activates a 'slave cylinder' whose magnified force then activates the clutch cylinder. Without this 'shared forces', your foot pressure alone would have to be huge to engage the clutch.
The rope wrench works similar to, but in reverse. If ALL the friction on a single line were applied to a friction hitch, the hitch would have to grip exceedingly tight to hold the climber in one place. Going up, you would have to 'break' the hitch each and every time after resting your weight on it. Also, when the hitch alone slides down the single line with your full weight on it, if you can loosen it enough, it still has to grip firmly enough to keep you from accelerating down, and friction and heat build up quickly and you have a very impractical and potentially dangerous situation. That's why the friction hitch has never been (successfully) applied to SRT.
Until now. The mechanical rope wrench shares the frictional duties with the friction hitch, allowing the hitch to take on a portion of the friction and heat, and the rope wrench to take on a portion of the friction and heat. You modulate one with respect to the other, finding a sweet spot somewhere in between, depending on whether you are going up or down, and if going down, modulating depending on how fast you want to go down.
Honestly, I have yet to try this system first-hand. I have seen it demonstrated and have seen that you have to use both hands to use it, you can not apply the device midline and it does only SRT. That's fine if you don't have eyes spliced onto your ropes, or don't mind feeding the device up a length of rope to get it to the working position.
The rope wrench works similar to, but in reverse. If ALL the friction on a single line were applied to a friction hitch, the hitch would have to grip exceedingly tight to hold the climber in one place. Going up, you would have to 'break' the hitch each and every time after resting your weight on it. Also, when the hitch alone slides down the single line with your full weight on it, if you can loosen it enough, it still has to grip firmly enough to keep you from accelerating down, and friction and heat build up quickly and you have a very impractical and potentially dangerous situation. That's why the friction hitch has never been (successfully) applied to SRT.
Until now. The mechanical rope wrench shares the frictional duties with the friction hitch, allowing the hitch to take on a portion of the friction and heat, and the rope wrench to take on a portion of the friction and heat. You modulate one with respect to the other, finding a sweet spot somewhere in between, depending on whether you are going up or down, and if going down, modulating depending on how fast you want to go down.
Honestly, I have yet to try this system first-hand. I have seen it demonstrated and have seen that you have to use both hands to use it, you can not apply the device midline and it does only SRT. That's fine if you don't have eyes spliced onto your ropes, or don't mind feeding the device up a length of rope to get it to the working position.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Personally, I use a single ascent device that can be applied midline, to a single line or twin line, in under ten seconds and can be controlled in the climb using one hand, left or right. That is a properly engineered dual ascender. I also use a single descent device that can be applied midline, to a single line or twin line, in under ten seconds and can be controlled in the climb using one hand, left or right. But this requires swapping from one to the other somewhere during the climb. If you can get past the mental obstacle of a simple, ten-second change over, you can choose any of the three rope techniques, at will, whenever you choose, using whichever is the most advantageous on the particular tree you're approaching.
The rope wrench is successful in doing what it does, I just have higher aspirations for it.
I'm setting the bar a little high for our industry, but what I've described above is entirely possible. I know this to be an absolute fact, without dispute. There exists a device that will do this magnificently well on the ascent. There are some other devices that will do this on the descent. But you have two devices. Missing is a singular device that will do ascent AND descent, single rope, doubled rope or twin line.
The rope wrench is successful in doing what it does, I just have higher aspirations for it.
I'm setting the bar a little high for our industry, but what I've described above is entirely possible. I know this to be an absolute fact, without dispute. There exists a device that will do this magnificently well on the ascent. There are some other devices that will do this on the descent. But you have two devices. Missing is a singular device that will do ascent AND descent, single rope, doubled rope or twin line.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
I see the SRT rope wrench, with it's shared frictional duties in this way:
If you can achieve successful SRT performance sharing the friction between two devices at TWO points on the same rope, could a DUAL rope wrench achieve similar performance on a twin line, with it's shared friction on two points next to one another, instead of above and below one another.
In a hypothetical scenario, this should work, taking the friction hitch completely out of the scene, offering us a truly singular unit that does all three rope techniques.
A dual grigri or a dual I'D, even though they have not been invented, would work on the descent, but because of the configuration, would not work on the footlock ascent. Therefore, no real advantage over other dual descent devices, and they'd cost a mint.
A dual rope wrench, because the bend in the rope(s) can be straightened, should allow successful, near-frictionless ascent on twin line, ability to fully weight the device in between strides and self-belay out (limbwalks) or down (descent). Presumably, once you're on the tree climbing it, slack-tending would be a simple issue. Simple, meaning one-handed, minimal friction, and very little effort.
This being hypothetical, we must wait and see. Until then, I have to accept all these advantages and options using two devices, one that does ascent very, very well, and the other specializing in descent very, very well and suffer through a change-over that sucks an agonizing ten seconds out of my climb. Thank goodness we stop, rest, and take a few moments in the tree now and then to decide where we're going and what to do next. Without those moments, I don't know where I'd find a free ten seconds.
(yes, I'm being sarcastic).
For the cats who just can't comprehend having to change over to a second device, you should just keep doing what you're doing. You're fine. We're working on something the world has never seen. The day may eventually come, but we don't know when.
I'd like to see tree climbers develop this before some other aerial industry does.
Maybe we should submit this one to Mythbusters. MYTH; there is a single device that will go DdRT, DbRT and SRT, and work on ascent and descent.
If you can achieve successful SRT performance sharing the friction between two devices at TWO points on the same rope, could a DUAL rope wrench achieve similar performance on a twin line, with it's shared friction on two points next to one another, instead of above and below one another.
In a hypothetical scenario, this should work, taking the friction hitch completely out of the scene, offering us a truly singular unit that does all three rope techniques.
A dual grigri or a dual I'D, even though they have not been invented, would work on the descent, but because of the configuration, would not work on the footlock ascent. Therefore, no real advantage over other dual descent devices, and they'd cost a mint.
A dual rope wrench, because the bend in the rope(s) can be straightened, should allow successful, near-frictionless ascent on twin line, ability to fully weight the device in between strides and self-belay out (limbwalks) or down (descent). Presumably, once you're on the tree climbing it, slack-tending would be a simple issue. Simple, meaning one-handed, minimal friction, and very little effort.
This being hypothetical, we must wait and see. Until then, I have to accept all these advantages and options using two devices, one that does ascent very, very well, and the other specializing in descent very, very well and suffer through a change-over that sucks an agonizing ten seconds out of my climb. Thank goodness we stop, rest, and take a few moments in the tree now and then to decide where we're going and what to do next. Without those moments, I don't know where I'd find a free ten seconds.
(yes, I'm being sarcastic).
For the cats who just can't comprehend having to change over to a second device, you should just keep doing what you're doing. You're fine. We're working on something the world has never seen. The day may eventually come, but we don't know when.
I'd like to see tree climbers develop this before some other aerial industry does.
Maybe we should submit this one to Mythbusters. MYTH; there is a single device that will go DdRT, DbRT and SRT, and work on ascent and descent.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
I actually attended that booth, intent on buying a treepeedo, but you had sold out, the last one had been doled out to a cat from Stowe, Vermont. We were probably face-to-face, AA. Good sorta meeting you.
the Aerialist
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sorry I missed you ...
If I Talked to you you would know pretty well that you met me. I was the only guy in the booth wihtout a Canadian accent. That must have been the last day, we sold all the demonstrators we had on display the last day. I sent those Canucks home with 'nuthing. I can probably get you one for testing and review. I'd like to hear your thoughts on them.
I'll PM you about it if that's OK?
I actually attended that booth, intent on buying a treepeedo, but you had sold out, the last one had been doled out to a cat from Stowe, Vermont. We were probably face-to-face, AA. Good sorta meeting you.
If I Talked to you you would know pretty well that you met me. I was the only guy in the booth wihtout a Canadian accent. That must have been the last day, we sold all the demonstrators we had on display the last day. I sent those Canucks home with 'nuthing. I can probably get you one for testing and review. I'd like to hear your thoughts on them.
I'll PM you about it if that's OK?
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Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dude, I believe I DID meet you. It was at the end of day three. I photo'd Kevin's demo, then bolted over to the treepeedo booth. I had written myself a note to not forget to buy one of these.
Any piece of gear that can save me time or make me money, that gear is welcome in my collection. You sometimes don't know until you try it out.
My ropesetting has been boiled pretty much down to the least common denomonator. Simplifying it, or speeding it up further is a challenge I'm willing to accept.
I find spliced ends on my rope to be a major advantage. If I have to give up advantage 1 to replace it with advantage 2, advantage 2 needs to outperform advantage 1. That's my only requirement.
Any piece of gear that can save me time or make me money, that gear is welcome in my collection. You sometimes don't know until you try it out.
My ropesetting has been boiled pretty much down to the least common denomonator. Simplifying it, or speeding it up further is a challenge I'm willing to accept.
I find spliced ends on my rope to be a major advantage. If I have to give up advantage 1 to replace it with advantage 2, advantage 2 needs to outperform advantage 1. That's my only requirement.
