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agreed..

I sell a lot of cables and know they save lives... Proper cables mean high cables.. the vast majority are installed too low... I shoot for 4/5th the height from union to tips when possible... usually takes two climbers to get them that high efficiently..

thru rods are a bit of a hole in my game.. I have an elm that needs one, and I out the money on it to go buy a bit, but was told to wait til winter on the rods because of DED..

Since you said it is "a hole in your game" Murph I might add a little advice.....sometimes 2 rods are better than one as the piece supported can pivot on just one of them causing the dreaded "barn door effect" and further damage.
 
The burdon of proof would be on them as to whether your cable system caused or added to the failure or whether incompetence was involved on your part leading to the injury or damage. Cabling and bracing are very viable tools to allow many trees to be enjoyed much longer than otherwise without them.

Many people that downplay the treatment of supplementary supports either do not know how to install them and/or do not understand them.

Support systems need to be monitored and sometimes to be replaced.

You're right Treevet, I am a neophyte when it comes to cabling, bracing, and through bolting. I don't know that the burden of proof is that great though. As professionals we are held to higher standard and in the event of a failure with injuries or damage involving a braced or cabled tree, I'm not sure the arborist would fare very well in court. This is all speculation on my part, do you know any case law we could review? Likely, there isn't much, which bolsters your case. To further the discussion, what is your tolerance for risk of failure when cabling and bracing?
 
I am trying to talk myself into going to bed but a properly cabled tree should not fail in relation to the cables or other supports. They may very well fail as a natural course of extreme weather but then how is the arb liable? If a knowledgeable arborist is unsure of the installation in relation to risk and failure then a ground level pruning cut is in order. As I have said in the past....I was taught to cable by very high level teachers and have installed well over 3,000 cables in over 40 years along with other supports.

There are cases in the 3 books on trees and the law by Block (sp?) and Merrullo (sp?) that I am pretty sure have set precedent. They can be obtained through the ISA website book store. It is all about the competency of the installer and the installation. If one has no sourse of good instruction then the ANSI standards are a good starting point.
 
I am trying to talk myself into going to bed but a properly cabled tree should not fail in relation to the cables or other supports. They may very well fail as a natural course of extreme weather but then how is the arb liable? If a knowledgeable arborist is unsure of the installation in relation to risk and failure then a ground level pruning cut is in order. As I have said in the past....I was taught to cable by very high level teachers and have installed well over 3,000 cables in over 40 years along with other supports.

There are cases in the 3 books on trees and the law by Block (sp?) and Merrullo (sp?) that I am pretty sure have set precedent. They can be obtained through the ISA website book store. It is all about the competency of the installer and the installation. If one has no sourse of good instruction then the ANSI standards are a good starting point.

Which is the problem I have here as the proper cable and hardware is in unobtainia lol. I have cabled but having read the standard and not being able to get the proper hardware locally I tend to steer away from it. I don't have deep enough pockets yet to order enough to keep on hand for such emergency. On the trees I have cabled a disclaimer was put in the bid which simply stated that the proper hardware was not readily available and that the customer understands that no liability will be brought upon me because wire cable clamps were used! I can't help feeling the standard was purposely wrote by suppliers of said hardware and it not being readily available makes going by the exact standard either for deep pocketed or services that have good support for proper gear and hardware.
 
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I have to admit, its good to be able to drive 4-5 miles and get cabling gear, but still I kow a few around here that order theirs from KK just casue its cheaper... they buy in bulk though... run 6 crews..

the real issue here is not availability of the gear.. Its the $$$$$$$ of course... what else????

I used to dread cabling when I charged 125 per cable... well I raised prices.. cables are now 250-350, so it is now worth the time and effort to do it right with the right hardware...

and I do more cables at the higher prices now, because I want to do them and highly encourage the customers when they are needed... around here the customers don't mind paying if they are given the proper education.. may not be the case everywhere..
 
I have to admit, its good to be able to drive 4-5 miles and get cabling gear, but still I kow a few around here that order theirs from KK just casue its cheaper... they buy in bulk though... run 6 crews..

the real issue here is not availability of the gear.. Its the $$$$$$$ of course... what else????

I used to dread cabling when I charged 125 per cable... well I raised prices.. cables are now 250-350, so it is now worth the time and effort to do it right with the right hardware...

and I do more cables at the higher prices now, because I want to do them and highly encourage the customers when they are needed... around here the customers don't mind paying if they are given the proper education.. may not be the case everywhere..

Murph the persons that would pay for cabling are sparse here but they are desirable customers. The problem is definitely cost of proper gear I can't afford inventory as the call for cabling is so low here and lightning protection is unheard of. Combine all that with no local source I have found yet and the fact that many cabling scenarios are time sensitive or will not have a good result if not performed asap and you can see why I don't bother too much with it.
 
its understandable... still might be worth stocking the gear for those few times you can sell the work... tough to say from here though.. you'd need a roll of 250 EHS steel cable, around $50 a dozen dead ends @ 4 ea, a dozen j lags @ 4 each, and a dozen thimbles @ .6 each... thst would be enough for 6 cables... you could pay for it all with less than one instalation...

as far as j lags vs thru bolts... you can put j lags in anything 10" and under... very few trees are over 10" at the height of 2/3 the way to the tips.. if yoiu do get intothat kind of monster, just keep climbing til you're at 10" wood..
 
Thanks for getting me thinking I forgot about our local arborist store and it looks like they have the hardware I will call to see if its stocked and start attempting to sell more cabling jobs.
 
Thanks for getting me thinking I forgot about our local arborist store and it looks like they have the hardware I will call to see if its stocked and start attempting to sell more cabling jobs.

PS: this store was not here the last cabling job I had! It is an hour away but thats definately do-able:clap:
 
I travel about 45 mins for cabling supplies, you just have to stock up.. after a while you figure out what size eye bolts are the most handy etc.

I dont have any use for j lags.

Are you guys using brace and bit or power drill? I am going to try to sell some cables now that I can get them local.I have an old brace and bit I think it will work but I am sure I will too lol! I think for now I will use it though until several cable job necessitate purchase of power drill! Then there is air spade I wonder how everyone makes a living with all the costs in our biz:dizzy: Really the only cable job I've actually had a call for was a blow over weeping willow that I rigged an arborist block and stood back up with my winch and guyed off with mobile home anchors which now are removed two years and tree is going good:cheers: I do think I may be able to sell some cabling for weak attachments and other issues I do have a few that like their trees! More just want them cut though but for now it takes all my customers to keep afloat!
 
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Are you guys using brace and bit or power drill? I am going to try to sell some cables now that I can get them local.I have an old brace and bit I think it will work but I am sure I will too lol! I think for now I will use it though until several cable job necessitate purchase of power drill! Then there is air spade I wonder how everyone makes a living with all the costs in our biz:dizzy: Really the only cable job I've actually had a call for was a blow over weeping willow that I rigged an arborist block and stood back up with my winch and guyed off with mobile home anchors which now are removed two years and tree is going good:cheers: I do think I may be able to sell some cabling for weak attachments and other issues I do have a few that like their trees! More just want them cut though but for now it takes all my customers to keep afloat!

By a "brace" I assume you mean the old hand drills.. no, I broke down some years back and bought the stihl drill, and everything else needed for the job.

I'm gonna buy the 2" earth auger from sherrill so that I can do vertical mulching too.. another good use of the drill.

Btw: if you get a new drill bit, go with the shorter one (the one thats just big enough for 18" eye bolts).. thats all I ever use. I made the mistake of buying the longer one, and it was a waste of money; too cumbersome in a tree (I think anyway).
 
I like the tanaka drill I bought maybe 20 years ago. Same engine as in the Wraptor. It has a reverse and mucho torque and easy to start.

You need a vast array of bits if your are going to start being the go to guy for this service/treatment. I probably have at least a dozen different bits.

We use lags all the time but sometimes use through eyes.
 
I am a proffessional timber faller, not arborist, but I have seen about every trick cut there is with a saw. The men out in BC, AK, down to WA,OR,CA that rigged tail trees, spar trees, and others for the highlead could show you how to cut the nasties (like 3-7 ft dbh 100ft+ up). I enjoy your videos, but I am confused by your motives. The arrogance that comes forth is probably not where your intent lies, but it is easy to assume you are a "certified expert" by the language you display, and your little censored bit. Please share your tricks, and what is so mystical with the other working proffesionals here, men that have dedicated a lifetime to the industry and the saw.
 
I like the tanaka drill I bought maybe 20 years ago. Same engine as in the Wraptor. It has a reverse and mucho torque and easy to start.

You need a vast array of bits if your are going to start being the go to guy for this service/treatment. I probably have at least a dozen different bits.

We use lags all the time but sometimes use through eyes.

Tanaka was my first choice.. I must have been having a moment of cheapness at the time.

I'll do it, but I dont think I ever want to be the "go to guy" for cabling. lol.
 
I like the tanaka drill I bought maybe 20 years ago. Same engine as in the Wraptor. It has a reverse and mucho torque and easy to start.

You need a vast array of bits if your are going to start being the go to guy for this service/treatment. I probably have at least a dozen different bits.

We use lags all the time but sometimes use through eyes.

I knew someone would say that 3k more to have to purchase ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh when does it end lol:monkey:
 
I had over 20 years of putting in cables with hand bits (sometimes rods too but sometimes we used heavy corded drills). Just imagine installing 3 or 4 cables by yourself with a 5/8 bit with a hand drill? GM gonna think you wetting yourself so much sweat dripping off ya. Arrrrrgggghhhh:taped:
 
I had over 20 years of putting in cables with hand bits (sometimes rods too but sometimes we used heavy corded drills). Just imagine installing 3 or 4 cables by yourself with a 5/8 bit with a hand drill? GM gonna think you wetting yourself so much sweat dripping off ya. Arrrrrgggghhhh:taped:

Lmfao yup I will sell some, then I will buy the stuff lol.
 
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