Crane tip-over.

[Hoister]

Thanks for clarifying that. Don't mind Jomoco, while he is very experienced and knowledgable, he's not known for understating things, or running away from an argument.....

I'm considering passing on bidding on a massive black cottonwood, as I think it would be hard to do it in a day. Involves parking a 100 ton crane in the street, with only room for cars, not buses to pass, without sucking in the outriggers (That's a pain.) If done Dec 27-28 (no school buses), We could do it without double or 1.5 time for crane and flaggers. But I'd still bid close to $15,000!!

Another co thinks they can do it in a day. Assume 10 hours of crane time with 1 hr travel each way. Can a crane that carries it's own c/w's set up on a nearly level road in 30 minutes? Seems a bit fast. That would still be 3 hours out of 10 with no work being done. The tree is at least 65" dbh, 150 feet tall. Not a lot of room to lay down brush or wood. At least 20 picks.....Radius at least 70 feet. With full counterweights, the chart looks adequate. But I'd like to be able to pick 20 foot trunk wood, in order to sell those 3 logs to offset trucking costs.... They'd weigh 7000-10000 lb each.

Do you know the model ?
100 ton with the stone on board, not many out there

they may have a dolly..where the boom is rest for travel..it can also carry the CW..no big deal ..as soon as the boom is out of the dolly ..boom up and hook onto a stone ..bring it on board....normally i would set my mats get on full outrigger's and then bring the CW on board ...all depends on the site really ..

worst case 10,000 pound at 70 feet.
the examples i give are based solely on a 70ft radius.

Grove/GMK-4085_100T best chart 96ft main @ 15,600 /sections 2/3 extended

Demag/AC-80-1_100T best chart 103.2 main @ 15,400/ sections 20/20/74/74/74 ..(those are precentages of main boom extended).

Grove/GMK-4100B_100T best chart 148 main @ 14,000 / sections probably 3/4/5... dosent show it ..

Liebherr/LTM-1090/2_110T best chart 87ft main ..but i think thats short ..so 111 of main @ 18,700lbs ..92/92/46/46/0 ..theres three different boom configs for the 111 fot lenght ..so to speed it up Id just use 0/0/92/92/92..again percentages of main boom sections..

30 minutes is good .... I can set an 80 up from the time i hit the button to deploy the jacks to the time its in the air full main ..under 30..thats if i dont have to set the mats ..just put dunnage there ..and load the CW on ..

 

[Hoister]

LOL.. saw this years ago ..Somebody forgot that it loose's 1/6 of its weight in the water ..then any additional water in it works against you once its out ..plus gravity

...

bad day all around

 

[treevet]

You sorta sound scared and green TV!

Think about the dogleg in an old handcrank arborist drill for a second and think calm confident thoughts about gravity spinning it at the choke point relative to the cut.

You sound like a scared girl who's seen a mouse!

jomoco:greenchainsaw:

Your wife has always said I was a very courageous man.

Hey, while you been inventin' all those useless gadgets like Ralph Kramden.....I been out doin crane jobs.....every day ....every year.... for 40 years ...and still am. I'll get you straightened out, it just may take a while.....son.

 

[jomoco]

So how was the big k-boom fished out Rootsxrocks?

Barge crane?

Yu caint leave us hangin!

Musta been real bad carma huh?

Murphy was on a real roll that day!

jomoco

 

[ray benson]

That last photo is a fake. It has been edited or photoshopped.

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

yep the last one is fake

but this aint fake Three cranes crashed Monday while trying to lift a steel girder that had fallen at New Delhi's metro rail construction site, a new blow to the project a day after the first accident left six people dead. No injuries have been reported. (July 13)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkzffMe215I

 

[Hoister]

yep the last one is fake

but this aint fake Three cranes crashed Monday while trying to lift a steel girder that had fallen at New Delhi's metro rail construction site, a new blow to the project a day after the first accident left six people dead. No injuries have been reported. (July 13)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkzffMe215I

That's a text book example of being boom bound and what it can do

The hydraulic crane has to bend ..apply a pressure point to it and ..bang ..

Its the equivalent of having somebody bump your leg at the knee from behind ..



In a perfect world...no crane in a multiple crane pick should be loaded at its worst point more than 75% of its rated load chart ....

 

[Taxmantoo]

That last photo is a fake. It has been edited or photoshopped.

Correct. The red crane went in as pictured, but the green crane fished the red one out without incident. I believe it was in Scotland or Ireland. A very expensive car retrieval that turned out to be.

 

[tree MDS]

You sorta sound scared and green TV!

Think about the dogleg in an old handcrank arborist drill for a second and think calm confident thoughts about gravity spinning it at the choke point relative to the cut.

You sound like a scared girl who's seen a mouse!

jomoco:greenchainsaw:

You old dogs are cool :censored:!

Jon: I was just reading your article in tci about the cabling thingy at a buddy's house while doing the turkey thing (I dont get tci anymore, gotta re-subscribe), very cool to have somewhat followed its beginnings from here.

 

[jomoco]

You old dogs are cool :censored:!

Jon: I was just reading your article in tci about the cabling thingy at a buddy's house while doing the turkey thing (I dont get tci anymore, gotta re-subscribe), very cool to have somewhat followed its beginnings from here.

Thanks Tree MDS,

Cool? Nah!

Cruel? Most certainly! To trees and fellow climbers!

Seriously though, the internet is the greatest learning tool in mankind's history, and used wisely, will propel us to new heights of education and training, for every imaginable specialty field of study/work that turns your crank.

It's true potential has yet to be felt, or even realised in my opinion. But it shouldn't be long now.

It's definitely a cool new tool for the average man to educate himself with.

I'm thankful for the internet this thanksgiving!

jomoco

 

[tree MDS]

Thanks Tree MDS,

Cool? Nah!

Cruel? Most certainly! To trees and fellow climbers!

Seriously though, the internet is the greatest learning tool in mankind's history, and used wisely, will propel us to new heights of education and training, for every imaginable specialty field of study/work that turns your crank.

It's true potential has yet to be felt, or even realised in my opinion. But it shouldn't be long now.

It's definitely a cool new tool for the average man to educate himself with.

I'm thankful for the internet this thanksgiving!

jomoco

+ 1 on all the above!

Ralf! :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[ozzy42]

Reminds me of this old rhyme
THERE WAS AN OLD LADY
There was an old lady who swallowed a fly

I don't know why she swallowed a fly.
I guess she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a spider
That wiggled and jiggled and tickled insider her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don't know why she swallowed a fly.
I guess she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a bird.
How absurd! To swallow a bird!
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and jiggled and tickled insider her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don't know why she swallowed a fly.
I guess she'll die.
(Continue verses)
Cat . . . Imagine that! She swallowed a cat.
Dog . . . What a hog! She swallowed a dog.
Goat . . . She opened her throat and in walked a goat.
Cow . . . I don't know how she swallowed that cow.
There was an old lady, she swallowed a horse.
She died of course!

 

[tree MDS]

+ 1 on all the above!

Ralf! :hmm3grin2orange:

Seriously though jomoco, nice old school vid there as well, i hadnt seen any of you climbing yet... and I like the hat! (besides, yer not supposed to hit yourself in the head anyways). and yes I read the part about the headsets

I always dream of inventing something for treework, getting rich on it and then squashing my competition with the proceeds back on the tree side. Lol.

Nice to dream anyways....

I guess we all got our angle though...

 

[pdqdl]

Crane tiddly-winks

A video of a crane going in the drink.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5GY6Efkyjo&feature=quicklist&playnext=5&playnext_from=QL

 

[treevet]

Seriously though jomoco, nice old school vid there as well, i hadnt seen any of you climbing yet... and I like the hat! (besides, yer not supposed to hit yourself in the head anyways). and yes I read the part about the headsets

I always dream of inventing something for treework, getting rich on it and then squashing my competition with the proceeds back on the tree side. Lol.

Nice to dream anyways....

I guess we all got our angle though...

A new bromance? That's speyshul. lol opcorn:

 

[rbtree]

I respectfully completely disagree with this. In order to make the pick with your scenario you have to TIP the piece and you have unpredictable holding wood and you have the blade buried waaaay into the piece likely getting stuck from side pressure. This could even be how the accident occurred sort of. (see the cut Jomoco made in his zoo vid where he had to keep going back in and the damn thing kept never coming off)

As I have said before...

I would double choke the piece with one choke on the boom side and one choke on the finishing cut side.

I would over tension the finishing cut side by having the sheave moved with a communication with the op on an intercom (checked by feeling tension in the non choked part of the cables of the chokers).

I would cut half way through on the crane side and then go into the opposite side with my finishing cut, first taking time by scoring the trunk on both sides as a guide so a perfectly MATCHING finishing cut can be attained.

After getting most of the way into the finishing cut and getting fairly near to the initial face cut.....I am gonna pull the saw out and put 3 wedges, (I usually use 3 dead twigs that just fit) .....one in the middle, one on either side of the middle in a little.

Then I am gonna run the cut right into the initial cut and with a little tension, just prior to the two cuts meeting, presto, straight up goes the piece....

....no tilt, little or no holding wood, no kerf, no saw pinch, no grabbing the saw outta your hands, no swing, no negs at all. If so desired the cutter could even exit the scene when the two cuts are almost touching (go to the ground as in this pick or....if in an aerial...just move away and wave bye bye.

This IS the RIGHT cut to be made.

Well, as you can see here, that's not what they did when they lifted the log out....But those of us who guessed its weight were way way off, it weighed 12,100 lb!! So, the main screw up was not estimating the wood weights before the job started. I can see in the enclosed photo that the piece is much larger than earlier photos made it appear.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20091125/ARTICLES/911259959

Now, vet, I still don't agree with your method for that piece of wood, given its asymetricity, and the fact that it wasn't vertical, and had that arm off to the side. However, by slowly picking it to vertical, as I described, the main advantage is the load moves closer to the centerpin, and there's no shock loading at all. Having two chokers near the top, opposed, would prolly be fine, but it would still need to be cut the way I said...or perhaps better, with a face cut first, then, yes, wedges if needed, to bring to to as close to plumb as possible.....IMO of course..

And, all this kibbitzing is moot, as we now know they were picking twice what they were rated for. TWICE!!!!!

 

[rbtree]

I just checked the woodweb calculator, and in order to come up with 12,000 lb, had to enter dimensions that surely seem larger than the photo implies......


Does it look 36 inches at the smallest, 40" at the big end, and a total length of 24 feet?

http://woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl

I wonder if they were including the ball in the weight?

 

[rbtree]

In this article, they say the crane was good for 7900 lb at that extension, and the log was estimated at 6200......but it was cut wrong, and shock loaded the crane. Was it really 12,100 lb? It's large, but doesn't look that large.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20091117/ARTICLES/911179907?tc=autorefresh

 

[ropensaddle]

Well, as you can see here, that's not what they did when they lifted the log out....But those of us who guessed its weight were way way off, it weighed 12,100 lb!! So, the main screw up was not estimating the wood weights before the job started. I can see in the enclosed photo that the piece is much larger than earlier photos made it appear.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20091125/ARTICLES/911259959

Now, vet, I still don't agree with your method for that piece of wood, given its asymetricity, and the fact that it wasn't vertical, and had that arm off to the side. However, by slowly picking it to vertical, as I described, the main advantage is the load moves closer to the centerpin, and there's no shock loading at all. Having two chokers near the top, opposed, would prolly be fine, but it would still need to be cut the way I said...or perhaps better, with a face cut first, then, yes, wedges if needed, to bring to to as close to plumb as possible.....IMO of course..

And, all this kibbitzing is moot, as we now know they were picking twice what they were rated for. TWICE!!!!!

I did not underestimate it, I said several tons too heavy. Funny thing, logs in one area can weigh different than in another. The green wood chart gets you close sometimes but it can be off too.

 

[brnchbrkr]

In this article, they say the crane was good for 7900 lb at that extension, and the log was estimated at 6200......but it was cut wrong, and shock loaded the crane. Was it really 12,100 lb? It's large, but doesn't look that large.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20091117/ARTICLES/911179907?tc=autorefresh