Crane tip-over.

[treevet]

Well, this event that may appear to be the tree removal/crane pick crime of the centuries really is not as relevant or important as one may think.

The two main experts here Hoister and Homoco (damn missed the j and hit the h) .....the former, although extremely knowledgeable in regards to the equipment and its operation and capabilities....has never even picked a limb out of a tree and the latter, thought some blocks sitting on a flat bed were the key evidence in his crime of the century theory .....but just turned out to be some blocks of wood instead of the insidious missing counterweights.

In reality these giant cranes are rarely used in day to day tree removals. The smaller ones are likely much safer to use from closer set up, familiarity of crane op and arb. from constant teamings, and potential damage from failure or collapse.

 

[jomoco]

Well, this event that may appear to be the tree removal/crane pick crime of the centuries really is not as relevant or important as one may think.

The two main experts here Hoister and Homoco (damn missed the j and hit the h) .....the former, although extremely knowledgeable in regards to the equipment and its operation and capabilities....has never even picked a limb out of a tree and the latter, thought some blocks sitting on a flat bed were the key evidence in his crime of the century theory .....but just turned out to be some blocks of wood instead of the insidious missing counterweights.

In reality these giant cranes are rarely used in day to day tree removals. The smaller ones are likely much safer to use from closer set up, familiarity of crane op and arb. from constant teamings, and potential damage from failure or collapse.

So it's your assertion that the 60K lbs of missing counterweights had no, roll in this travesty?

Come into my web TV, closer.

jomoco

 

[Hoister]

So it's your assertion that the 60K lbs of missing counterweights had no, roll in this travesty?

Come into my web TV, closer.

jomoco

:deadhorse:

 

[Hoister]

So it's your assertion that the 60K lbs of missing counterweights had no, roll in this travesty?
Come into my web TV, closer.

jomoco

:deadhorse:

And jo ..it wasnt 60k lb's ..
75k lb's ..to bring her to a 175 T unit .... give or take a pound

 

[squad143]

Wow, 325 posts in 10 days. Interesting thread. opcorn:

 

[jomoco]

I agree with RB's method to a large extent, in that the best approach to dealing with iffy picks, is to face them straight for the crane's center pin, and choke the pick from the farthest side from the crane, to make dang sure it moves towards the crane, and away from you.

From the crane centerpin's perspective, that funky lip left on the trunk at 3 oclock, with the boom failing towards 11 oclock to the trunk's 12 oclock?

I smell jump cut?

jomoco

 

[Hoister]

I agree with RB's method to a large extent, in that the best approach to dealing with iffy picks, is to face them straight for the crane's center pin, and choke the pick from the farthest side from the crane, to make dang sure it moves towards the crane, and away from you.

From the crane centerpin's perspective, that funky lip left on the trunk at 3 oclock, with the boom failing towards 11 oclock to the trunk's 12 oclock?

I smell jump cut?

jomoco

Can you elaborate ??

 

[treeclimber101]

Sweet ..
Erection? or industrial?

Mohawk and Iroquois showed me the ways of pouring steel ..great guys

Iron worker's are usally the finest rigger's on site ..and know which way a crane goes ..

Structural Ironworkers Local 401 in phila. for five Yrs I was a connector for Cornell Steel and have worked with cranes that need cranes like the one that tipped to put the real crane together, and by the way the houses doesn't really look that bad , and the crane is salvageable , if it sucks in the boom than your good to go . And you are right other than Riggers Ironworkers are the next best thing, I have alot of family still hanging iron all over the tri-state area so maybe one day we'll meet..

 

[treeclimber101]

Good what not to do thread if your gonna rent a rig for tree's ..

 

[jomoco]

Can you elaborate ??

It's almost like a pressure release strap trigger on a leaning tree that crafty old loggers use to fall them very quickly and run.

Obviously if the path of overload followed by the boom was on the trunk's 9 oclock side, and the release point/trigger was on the trunk's 3 oclock side?

The trigger should ideally face towards the crane, not it's left or right side.

Making cuts that suddenly release alot or all of a log's weight has it's role in the arborist toolbag, but they're extremely rare and unlikely when doing takedowns with a crane, in my opinion.

I'd love to see a close up shot of that trunk's funky lip to determine if tearing or cutting released that fateful pick?

jomoco

 

[treevet]

It's almost like a pressure release strap trigger on a leaning tree that crafty old loggers use to fall them very quickly and run.

Obviously if the path of overload followed by the boom was on the trunk's 9 oclock side, and the release point/trigger was on the trunk's 3 oclock side?

The trigger should ideally face towards the crane, not it's left or right side.

Making cuts that suddenly release alot or all of a log's weight has it's role in the arborist toolbag, but they're extremely rare and unlikely when doing takedowns with a crane, in my opinion.

I'd love to see a close up shot of that trunk's funky lip to determine if tearing or cutting released that fateful pick?

jomoco

The blind giving instruction to the blind

 

[ropensaddle]

The blind giving instruction to the blind

almost a nova lol my last bullet

 

[jomoco]

The blind giving instruction to the blind

Well I guess you must be blind then TV!

That funky trunk lip means something to me, maybe not you!

What's your opinion, was it cut, or torn off to release the pick?

What does your shigo book say TV?

jomoco

 

[Hoister]

Electrical ..

So , up for working around high tension wire's ...

You grab a Gorrilla and your going across the room ..much like that 175 and the log she was holding on to ..

But you only have to get just close enough to a snake to bite you ..you dont have to touch it ..

And thats working around electricity with equipment..

Just as a spark plug works,electricity jumps a gap to make an arc ..electricity will do the same in equipment ..

In an Ideal world ..we maintain our limitation's of 10-15-20 feet ..
But it happens ..the snake will bite ..

I think we all know why it happens ..but what do we do when a machine makes contact with High tension wire's?

The operator of the equipment must make every attempt to break the contact ..

the operator shall warn everyone around not to move or come closer ..everyone stay away ..or stand still.

the operator must stay with the machine as long it is safe to do so ..and abandon said machine when the operators safety is directly compromised ..
So unless flames are licking your butt ..dont leave ..I'll get to the reason *

now your on a site ..the equipment has made contact ..as a ground person ..what do you do? ..

First ..a guy has to understand how electricity moves ..

Always from the high potential to the lower potential ..it seeks the path of least resistance ..meaning ..in an area where theres a 10,000 volt charge ..any area thats lesser than 10,000 volt ..the electricity will flow ..this is called "potential"
If your standing in a grid thats charged with 10,000 volts ..you dont get blown away ..because you at the same potential ....meaning your body already has 10,000 volt in it ..not more not less ..Its the difference in potential that kill's..
This is why a bird can sit on high tension wires ..theres no where for the potential to flow ..so it remains the same in the bird.

Gradients ..

Thats a weather map you say ..yes it is .
But just as the pressure line's in a weather map are never the same nor is the way electricity will flow through the ground ..its never the same way twice ..
the center line represents here the source of the electrical ..each line further from that is at a lesser potential than the one before it ..
For a number ..
the center line is 20,000 volt..the next 18,000v ,17,900v ,14,000v..its completely random but predictable ..electricity will dissapte through the ground in a circumfrence from its source..how much ..depends on the geography and soil type..
The difference between 20,000v and 18,000 volt is 2000v potential ..

Meaning
if you were to walk from the center circle to the next outter circle in a full stride ..you would recieve a 2000v shock..

Ya with me ?

 

[ropensaddle]

So , up for working around high tension wire's ...

You grab a Gorrilla and your going across the room ..much like that 175 and the log she was holding on to ..

But you only have to get just close enough to a snake to bite you ..you dont have to touch it ..

And thats working around electricity with equipment..

Just as a spark plug works,electricity jumps a gap to make an arc ..electricity will do the same in equipment ..

In an Ideal world ..we maintain our limitation's of 10-15-20 feet ..
But it happens ..the snake will bite ..

I think we all know why it happens ..but what do we do when a machine makes contact with High tension wire's?

The operator of the equipment must make every attempt to break the contact ..

the operator shall warn everyone around not to move or come closer ..everyone stay away ..or stand still.

the operator must stay with the machine as long it is safe to do so ..and abandon said machine when the operators safety is directly compromised ..
So unless flames are licking your butt ..dont leave ..I'll get to the reason *

now your on a site ..the equipment has made contact ..as a ground person ..what do you do? ..

First ..a guy has to understand how electricity moves ..

Always from the high potential to the lower potential ..it seeks the path of least resistance ..meaning ..in an area where theres a 10,000 volt charge ..any area thats lesser than 10,000 volt ..the electricity will flow ..this is called "potential"
If your standing in a grid thats charged with 10,000 volts ..you dont get blown away ..because you at the same potential ....meaning your body already has 10,000 volt in it ..not more not less ..Its the difference in potential that kill's..
This is why a bird can sit on high tension wires ..theres no where for the potential to flow ..so it remains the same in the bird.

Gradients ..

Thats a weather map you say ..yes it is .
But just as the pressure line's in a weather map are never the same nor is the way electricity will flow through the ground ..its never the same way twice ..
the center line represents here the source of the electrical ..each line further from that is at a lesser potential than the one before it ..
For a number ..
the center line is 20,000 volt..the next 18,000v ,17,900v ,14,000v..its completely random but predictable ..electricity will dissapte through the ground in a circumfrence from its source..how much ..depends on the geography and soil type..
The difference between 20,000v and 18,000 volt is 2000v potential ..

Meaning
if you were to walk from the center circle to the next outter circle in a full stride ..you would recieve a 2000v shock..

Ya with me ?

Fairly good their hoister, I have trimmed burning power lines for years and knowing how to stay out of the path of least resistance is what has kept me safe. I argued with a well known line clearance guy about this for an hour. Its all good I guess they shut down the power which is safer but knowing how potentials work and how to avoid completing the circuit along with years of practical experiance will allow you to do more than most think.
Then there is the deadly inductive power that gets a bit tricky.

 

[Hoister]

Ok ..
So now you have an idea of how you may die in an electrical contact situation ..
How do i survive an electrical contact situation ..

#1 ..dont move ..I mean it ..do not remove your feet from where they are ..for all you know your on a series of gradient lines ..If you heard the WAP!..your still alive ....Do Not Leave Your Postion !!!

#2..But I have to go ..everything is on fire ..or theres matertial gonna fall on me ..

Understand this an practice it ..

"shuffle your feet"..you will as slowly as posable ..shuffle your feet ..as not enough to let another foot leave the groung..and as not enough to get one foot completely in front of the other ....
The idea behind this is that your always in contact with the potential as you move you will remain at what ever the potential is beneath you feet ..nothing leaves the ground ..or moves to suddenly into an eare of high to low potential ..or vice versa ..

#3..First rule of rescue..this is the worst..
contact has been made your aware of this ..Your buddy drops ..then another and he's screaming ..
first rule of rescue in a electrical contact situation
Do Not Become A Victim

Your buddy that dropped ..he's dead ..get over it ..
Your buddy thats screaming ..he may live ..
But you wont if you move .. Do not leave your footing ..You can shuffle ..but how are you gonna touch him or aid him ..If the potential is all around ..
Voice your concern ..and tell him to hang on ..Your no good to him dead ..

All Clear !!
How do i know when ..its all clear ..

The noise from the wires stopped ..nope ..

Hydro grids are equipped with a self resetting breaker that will pop and reset at a particular time determined by the utility ..the number of times is also determned by the utility ..
This serves as a means for the grid to blow debris ,,like tree limbs clear ..and protect the sytem ..also it saves on having to send out a crew everytime a tree branch pops the breaker..

So the all clear ..
Only an official from an electrical authority would give the all clear ..or the EMS tech's who have explicit contact with the authority ..can they give the all clear ..
Untill then ..stay where your at .....



Was that clear enough ..?



""

 

[Hoister]

Then there is the deadly inductive power that gets a bit tricky.

Induced power ..yes i forgot about that ..

For those who.dont know ..
A crane for example ..can essentially become a capacitor when ,,booming ,swinging ..through an electrical field ..
meaning with out proper grounding technique ..its possable to get a shock from a crane ..thats just working in the vacinity of the wire's ..

 

[ropensaddle]

Ok ..
So now you have an idea of how you may die in an electrical contact situation ..
How do i survive an electrical contact situation ..

#1 ..dont move ..I mean it ..do not remove your feet from where they are ..for all you know your on a series of gradient lines ..If you heard the WAP!..your still alive ....Do Not Leave Your Postion !!!

#2..But I have to go ..everything is on fire ..or theres matertial gonna fall on me ..

Understand this an practice it ..

"shuffle your feet"..you will as slowly as posable ..shuffle your feet ..as not enough to let another foot leave the groung..and as not enough to get one foot completely in front of the other ....
The idea behind this is that your always in contact with the potential as you move you will remain at what ever the potential is beneath you feet ..nothing leaves the ground ..or moves to suddenly into an eare of high to low potential ..or vice versa ..

#3..First rule of rescue..this is the worst..
contact has been made your aware of this ..Your buddy drops ..then another and he's screaming ..
first rule of rescue in a electrical contact situation
Do Not Become A Victim

Your buddy that dropped ..he's dead ..get over it ..
Your buddy thats screaming ..he may live ..
But you wont if you move .. Do not leave your footing ..You can shuffle ..but how are you gonna touch him or aid him ..If the potential is all around ..
Voice your concern ..and tell him to hang on ..Your no good to him dead ..

All Clear !!
How do i know when ..its all clear ..

The noise from the wires stopped ..nope ..

Hydro grids are equipped with a self resetting breaker that will pop and reset at a particular time determined by the utility ..the number of times is also determned by the utility ..
This serves as a means for the grid to blow debris ,,like tree limbs clear ..and protect the sytem ..also it saves on having to send out a crew everytime a tree branch pops the breaker..

So the all clear ..
Only an official from an electrical authority would give the all clear ..or the EMS tech's who have explicit contact with the authority ..can they give the all clear ..
Untill then ..stay where your at .....



Was that clear enough ..?



""

Three shot been there too lol. Say the lines down on your bucket stay calm don't touch anything and I mean anything. If you are not being shocked and in eminent danger stay where you are is good advice. I will look up at the fuse handle single phaze and if the handle drops and they don't always I will leave. If it blows and don't drop I will stay right where I am. Three phaze and higher are not fused usually they are on until the substation blows or is shut down. They do run a neutral to balance load though. Higher voltage don't even run a neutral just static lines. I got in a bad position once in a burning tree trimming single phaze and some ass hole stole the ground off the pole and it was windy, kept getting buzzed every time the wind blew, then it started raining. I quickly took my pruner and clipped the limb causing my discomfort and went home for the day while they re grounded the line.

 

[Hoister]

Three shot been there too lol. Say the lines down on your bucket stay calm don't touch anything and I mean anything. If you are not being shocked and in eminent danger stay where you are is good advice. I will look up at the fuse handle single phaze and if the handle drops and they don't always I will leave. If it blows and don't drop I will stay right where I am. Three phaze and higher are not fused usually they are on until the substation blows or is shut down. They do run a neutral to balance load though. Higher voltage don't even run a neutral just static lines. I got in a bad position once in a burning tree trimming single phaze and some ass hole stole the ground off the pole and it was windy, kept getting buzzed every time the wind blew, then it started raining. I quickly took my pruner and clipped the limb causing my discomfort and went home for the day while they re grounded the line.

LOL

And people say im mental !!!

 

[ropensaddle]

LOL

And people say im mental !!!

You would be surprised shock therapy does work friend lol