Crosscut Saw Manuals / References

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Philbert

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I picked up a few, older crosscut saws after the opportunity to try using some at a USFS training class
http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/199684.htm

They are still used in wilderness areas, where chainsaws are not allowed, and like a lot of manual tools, can be fun to use if properly sharpened and tuned.

I have found a few, very good US Forest Service Manuals on sharpening, maintaining, and using these saws, and wanted to post them where others might find them. Some of these are listed in other threads, but might be hard to find.


Crosscut Saw Manual USFS 2003

http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf77712508/pdf77712508dpi72.pdf



New Tools for Old Saws - Crosscut Saw Tools USFS 2005

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf05232815/pdf05232815dpi300.pdf



Chain Saw and Crosscut Saw Training Course USFS 2006

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf06672805/pdf06672805dpi300.pdf


Philbert

*NOTE: several illustrations and/or links in this thread were lost - I have tried to restore them as best as I could. Please add or restore any others, as well as add additional resources.

*EDIT/UPDATE: See additional reference in post #24.
 
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Great links and good skills to learn. Never know when gas might be hard to get,'at least you can still cut wood! I have several flavors of "manual"'wood cutters, I was schooled in the finer points of saw sharpening a few years back by an old school millwright/sawfiler who in his retired years had a sharpening business. The things you can do with the right file!
 
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Maybe a sticky???

I would like to learn to sharpen them. I may volunteer with the local Backcountry Horsemen to do maintenance if they'll have me and let me WALK in. But I'd let them pack my gear!
 
mad murdock said:
. . . I was schooled in the finer points of saw sharpening a few years back by an old school millwright/sawfiler who in his retired years had a sharpening business.
Click to expand...

Any points that you can share?


I recently spoke to an older gentleman in the business, who does not file these saws anymore. He learned how to sharpen them from his father, and then did it by experience and feel. I hope to be able to coax him into coaching me, to make the learning curve less steep.

There seem to be a number of special tools: long jointers, raker gauges, 'spiders', setting stakes, anvils, 'safe' files, etc. Some of these are available on eBay or at flea markets. I only found one company selling them new ( Crosscut Saw Company ) but these do not look as solid as the vintage stuff.

At the same time, I have heard that you can improvise some things:

- Use a long, flexible wood or metal strip and a feeler gauge to 'joint' the cutters. This will not file them to the correct height, but let you know which ones need to be lowered.

- Use a short straightedge and a feeler gauge to measure and set raker heights.

- Improvise a hand anvil or stake from a scrap block of steel.

- Find a small (8 ounce?) tinner's hammer instead of a special saw hammer.

- Build a saw vise according to the instructions in the USFS books.

Philbert
 
slowp said:
Maybe a sticky???

I would like to learn to sharpen them. I may volunteer with the local Backcountry Horsemen to do maintenance if they'll have me and let me WALK in. But I'd let them pack my gear!
Click to expand...

Crosscut Saw Co is a great source for information, tools, manuals, supplies, and a good selection of new saws.
Crosscut Saw Company
 
Good thread and reference documents. I didn't know the difference between a felling and bucking saw before reading one of your linked PDFs.

Yesterday I did an eleven-mile hike in a federal wilderness and witnessed many (hundreds) of examples of how a bucking saw had been put to use clearing trails. While only western soft woods, many of the blow downs were 24-30" diameter and most had to be cut twice to clear the path. A huge amount of effort.

Just like with a chainsaw, most of the logs were top bound and hand saws do not lend themselves to bottom up cutting. Almost without exception each cut was a single continuous slice.

My questions to you,
  • how does the cutter prevent blade binding? Is a simple wedge adequate?
  • many of the cuts showed the bark cleared with an axe before the cut, why?
 
MtnHermit said:
My questions to you,
  • how does the cutter prevent blade binding? Is a simple wedge adequate?
  • many of the cuts showed the bark cleared with an axe before the cut, why?
Click to expand...

Check out the Crosscut Saw section of the 3rd reference: Chain Saw and Crosscut Saw Training Course USFS 2006

A lot of the techniques are the same for a crosscut or chain saw; up cuts, offset cuts, wedges, etc. They require the cutter to assess the situation, look for tension and potential binds in the wood, plan where the parts will move after being cut, etc.

You are right that cutting upwards with a crosscut saw is more difficult than with a chainsaw. EVERY cut takes more effort with a crosscut saw, so I think that the sawyer tends to make more deliberate cuts with the manual saw. Thinking this way can also make you more efficient with chainsaw cuts as well.

As far as removing the bark, it is sometimes full of sand or other abrasive materials that dull the teeth (or chain) more quickly, so some people like to clear it off first with a axe (crosscut or chainsaw).

Philbert
 
MtnHermit said:
Good thread and reference documents. I didn't know the difference between a felling and bucking saw before reading one of your linked PDFs.

Yesterday I did an eleven-mile hike in a federal wilderness and witnessed many (hundreds) of examples of how a bucking saw had been put to use clearing trails. While only western soft woods, many of the blow downs were 24-30" diameter and most had to be cut twice to clear the path. A huge amount of effort.

Just like with a chainsaw, most of the logs were top bound and hand saws do not lend themselves to bottom up cutting. Almost without exception each cut was a single continuous slice.

My questions to you,
  • how does the cutter prevent blade binding? Is a simple wedge adequate?
  • many of the cuts showed the bark cleared with an axe before the cut, why?
Click to expand...
If you are bucking logs/trees of any size, bucking wedges are a necessary item to keep handy. You also want to carry a good single bit axe,for setting wedges, or double bit if you like, (have to smack wedges with the side of a double). I made a sweging/tooth setting block from a block of steel, with a slight bevel, and I use a ball peen hammer to do my setting, the raker tips are hammer set and filed with the same file that I use for the cutting teeth, (simonds cant saw file). If you look up Simonds files on the net, they have a downloadable catalog that has a ton of information concerning files and their uses. An American Pattern Crosscut File would be optimal, but are hard to come across, may have to order one directly from the factory, or you can buy them from Crosscut saw co. I have never jointed a saw, never came across one that was abused to the point where it was needed. Only sharpened and set teeth and rakers. The concept is easy enough to grasp, especially if you peruse through the USFS manuals listed on the OP.
 
Great thread! I recently started collecting broad axes and one man/two man cross cut saws. Sharpening a axe is no biggie but those cross cut saws seem a little overwhelming. I've watched some videos and did a little reading about it but never felt like i had a good enough grasp on the process to try it. If you guys figure it out, post some pics please.
 
Apart from it being properly sharpened, WD40 is your next best friend really important to keep the blade properly lubricated makes cutting a helluva lot easier.

The best saws I think where the Simmonds 520 and 504 aka the Royal Chinooks.
 
Thanks Miles!

They are another source we now have listed for new crosscut saws, and for the triangular 'cant' saw files for sharpening.

The link from Miles86 (above) has this book:

Setting and Sharpening Hand and Power Saws by Harold Payson

One of the earlier links has a book:

Saw Filer's Handbook by Phil S. Quelch (the 'Armstrong Blue Book').

Is anybody familiar with either of these books? I am curious to know how much they pertain to sharpening lumber type crosscut saws, as opposed to circular saws, bandsaw blades, carpentry type saws, etc.

Thanks.

Philbert
 
OK,

I just ordered a copy of Payson's book (from a non-sponsor, nationally known, on-line, book seller that reminds me of a famous river in S. America . . . ). I will report back on what I find as far as sharpening crosscut saws.

I was also prompted to go to my bookshelf and pull out my copy of The Complete Guide to Sharpening by Leonard Lee, founder of Lee Valley Tools, and designer/developer of Veritas tools. Mr. Lee is a very creative engineer who is also able to explain things clearly. This is my favorite book on sharpening woodworking tools, and I recalled that it touched on a number of other cutting tools as well.

He has about 20 pages of very good, general information on hand saws, including information on how a saw works, grain structure of wood, how different saws cut, filing, jointing, setting, etc. About 5 of these pages, plus a few additional photographs, are specific to sharpening the one and two-man crosscut saws that we are discussing here. None of it is new or different from the USFS manuals listed earlier, but for some of us it helps to see the same information presented in different ways.

A big plus were Lee's designs for improvising home shop versions of a raker depth gauge and spider set gauge (illustrations below) using simple materials.

If you also sharpen other woodworking tools - this is a great book to have. I saw some softcover and used versions available on-line as low as $15.

There are a couple of pages of very basic information on sharpening chainsaw teeth - but they not as informative as the basic info put out by STIHL, Oregon, Carlton, etc.

Philbert

Raker Gauge LL.png
Spider Gauge LL.png
 
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Underbucking with a crosscut saw is not necessarily difficult if there's room beneath the log. I generally use an axe, as it's springy and I can control the bite of my saw by bearing down on the axe handle. You can single underbuck a log pretty fast that way once you get into the kerf far enough to take a full stroke.

[video=youtube;7oqRrC3HzwM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oqRrC3HzwM[/video]
 
Philbert said:
AT Sawyer's video above led me to this instructional video on sharpening (also yours?):

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FrYsFlx3OSY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

How I Sharpen a Crosscut Saw - YouTube

Looks pretty good. Helps to visualize stuff in the manuals.

Philbert
Click to expand...
I've never starred in an instructional vid on you tube or elsewhere. Good video though.
 
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