Cutting a Tree That Will Lodge

[serial feller]

That's funny. Mean, but funny.

Back to the post. If you know the tree you are cutting is going to hang up, find a better way. Hang ups occasionally happen and are never fun and always dangerous. They also are not done intentionally. It sounds like you want to preserve the other trees. If you yank out a hanger you will do a lot of damage to the other tree you are trying to save. Might as well do as SLOWP suggested and take out the tree in the way. Either that or have someone top the tree you want to cut down. Whatever you decide, be safe.

 

[keh10]

Because you have to ask, you probably should not partake. . Though basic common sense says that an acute face will break the hold wood earlier than an obtuse. I hope I did not just blow your mind:msp_confused:

[video=youtube;obFHu7DCsEs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFHu7DCsEs[/video]

 

[TreePointer]

Humboldt notch will do well, but I don't like the physics of the sloping or angled back cut. Except for old timers, it's pretty much frowned upon these days.

What are ya talkiin bout ????

Okay, I'll rephrase it:

Except for some uninformed oldtimers or those who are too stubborn to accept physical principles and safer techniques, it is indeed a frowned upon practice that is not currently taught by any known professional forestry organization or workplace safety agency worth the paper on which its charter is written. If they do teach it, they are ignorant and irresponsible.

BTW, the topic of the angled/sloped back cut for felling has been beaten to death in many forums and elsewhere. This is where this forum's search function and search engines like Google.com come in handy.

 

[lfnh]

Okay, I'll rephrase it:

Except for some uninformed oldtimers or those who are too stubborn to accept physical principles and safer techniques, it is indeed a frowned upon practice that is not currently taught by any known professional forestry organization or workplace safety agency worth the paper on which its charter is written. If they do teach it, they are ignorant and irresponsible.

BTW, the topic of the angled/sloped back cut for felling has been beaten to death in many forums and elsewhere. This is where this forum's search function and search engines like Google.com come in handy.

Good on ya. Much appreciated.
Very good clarification and hopefully it will save someone from making serious mistake.
My appologies for jumping the gun on you.

 

[troythetreeman]

heh, a sloping back cut will not help a tree fall the desired direction, it will not help prevent it from going the wrong direction
but coupled with a humbolt notch, it will allow the butt to slide forward and down off the stump if the top hangs up in another tree
if your back cut is flat itll either stay on the stump if it lodges or twist off the stump in the direction of the most pressure, either side or back, which, if it doesnt get you could very likely get your saw
you people cut trees???? you seriously never use angled cuts to ensure something falls the way you want? next youre going to tell me its never better to make your notch deeper then 1/3 or the angle of said notch should always be 90 degrees?
i suppose you never make vertical snap cuts to drop nearly vertical branches straight down either?
or a notch should always be horizontal?

 

[keh10]

I have to cut a 100 ft. pine with a base of approx. 16". There are other similar pine trees around it and the tree I will be cutting will most likely lodge against one of them when it falls. I want to try and pull the tree off it's stump after it falls to get it to come down the rest of the way. Is there any special cutting technique I could use to facilitate this process. I want to minimize the possibility of any hinge wood that would keep the tree connected to the stump, and prevent it from being winched off the stump. Thank-you in advance.

If you're planning on pulling the butt away from the stump after it gets hung up, I don't recommend it unless you have a good way of keeping the butt from digging into the ground. If you think you can pull the butt no problem then go for it. Cut a decently shallow (acute) notch, back cut, and if the tree doesn't hang up before the notch closes, the hinge should break free.

However, I recommend getting a pull line in that tree. It will give you more control of the direction you want it to fall and it will provide you a means with which to pull the tree out should it get hung. A capstan winch or come-a-long would be pretty helpful tools to have on a job like this.

 

[056kid]

heh, a sloping back notch will not help a tree fall the desired direction, it will not help prevent it from going the wrong direction
but coupled with a humbolt notch, it will allow the butt to slide forward and down off the stump if the top hangs up in another tree
if your back cut is flat itll either stay on the stump if it lodges or twist off the stump in the direction of the most pressure, either side or back, which, if it doesnt get you could very likely get your saw
you people cut trees???? you seriously never use angled cuts to ensure something falls the way you want? next youre going to tell me its never better to make your notch deeper then 1/3 or the angle of said notch should always be 90 degrees?
i suppose you never make vertical snap cuts to drop nearly vertical branches straight down either?
or a notch should always be horizontal?

Your knowledge base sounds very theoretical. . Everything that my brain can come up with has been played out many times in many different situations and granted I am young, i have never had to use a sloping back cut to get a tree on the ground. There are other ways to do that, ways that don't screw up a good butt log. . .
As for your snap cuts, I usually do not cut vertical limbs vertically, I try them horizontally first

 

[troythetreeman]

its not theoretical, its years of experience, the method described its not something i do i would say even frequently, but there are times it is the best way
as for vertical snap cuts, i do do that frequently, i often work on trees in tight spaces and to prevent limbs from hanging up in or breaking up other trees, i drop them straight down
its the same basic principal with the notch tho, the notch ensures the top falls away from you and the sloping back cut ensures the butt slides forward off the stump, its generally still hung up in the other tree and now your butt is drove into the ground, but sometimes thats the best result and the next step is to start a series of top notch/undercuts till your center of gravity changes and it falls out of the tree its hung in

 

[056kid]

Or not. While you are sloping back cuts, I am rolling trees to the forest floor and kicking them backwards off the stump. No series of bucking cuts to lower the tree either.

 

[stihl.logger]

aside from the umpteen different cuts you can put on a tree.... we all have had hangers but i'm sure if we were to look back on it there was a way around it. read the tree, be the tree. plus if your not planning on taking out any other trees, no sense in damaging them or makin a widowmaker 80 foot up. i personally couldn't or wont tell you how i would do it unless i were to see it. their all different and all have a mind of their own...

 

[Gologit]

its the same basic principal with the notch tho, the notch ensures the top falls away from you and the sloping back cut ensures the butt slides forward off the stump,

Maybe in arborist work, on small trees or shrubbery, this would work. I doubt seriously I'd trust it on anything with size to it.

The sloping back cut on large timber has been proven over and over again to be not only dangerous but a waste of time as well. If you want the butt of the log off of the stump use a block face or a Humboldt with a snipe.

 

[TreePointer]

Good on ya. Much appreciated.
Very good clarification and hopefully it will save someone from making serious mistake.
My appologies for jumping the gun on you.

Not a problem. I wasn't exactly sure what your angle was, either.

 

[RandyMac]

heh, a sloping back cut will not help a tree fall the desired direction, it will not help prevent it from going the wrong direction
but coupled with a humbolt notch, it will allow the butt to slide forward and down off the stump if the top hangs up in another tree
if your back cut is flat itll either stay on the stump if it lodges or twist off the stump in the direction of the most pressure, either side or back, which, if it doesnt get you could very likely get your saw
you people cut trees???? you seriously never use angled cuts to ensure something falls the way you want? next youre going to tell me its never better to make your notch deeper then 1/3 or the angle of said notch should always be 90 degrees?
i suppose you never make vertical snap cuts to drop nearly vertical branches straight down either?
or a notch should always be horizontal?

you are an idiot.

 

[troythetreeman]

you are an idiot.

and youre a jackass
ive removed thousands of trees, my safety record is impeccable, i know what works and what doesnt
more then that, i know why it works or why it wont
a humbolt notch and a sloping back cut will allow you lay one tree into another, softly, then safely piece it out doing little or no damage to the second tree, there are a lot of variables, thats why theres more then one way to go about things
in typing this, ive changed my mind
youre an idiot and a jackass

 

[kdslocum]

and youre a jackass
ive removed thousands of trees, my safety record is impeccable, i know what works and what doesnt
more then that, i know why it works or why it wont
a humbolt notch and a sloping back cut will allow you lay one tree into another, softly, then safely piece it out doing little or no damage to the second tree, there are a lot of variables, thats why theres more then one way to go about things
in typing this, ive changed my mind
youre an idiot and a jackass

opcorn: like I said before maybe you should trade in you computer for a tree climbers guide

 

[lfnh]

Bailey's has several books written by people with considerable experience in these matters.
Dent, Beranek, Jepson come to mind quickly.
Valuable stuff written there.
fwiw

 

[troythetreeman]

opcorn: like I said before maybe you should trade in you computer for a tree climbers guide

yeah, you do talk a lot

 

[kdslocum]

yeah, you do talk a lot

At least my advice is helpful and not gonna get someone killed:msp_thumbsup:

 

[056kid]

and youre a jackass
ive removed thousands of trees, my safety record is impeccable, i know what works and what doesnt
more then that, i know why it works or why it wont
a humbolt notch and a sloping back cut will allow you lay one tree into another, softly, then safely piece it out doing little or no damage to the second tree, there are a lot of variables, thats why theres more then one way to go about things
in typing this, ive changed my mind
youre an idiot and a jackass

The man that you are insulting has more mbf in ONE tree than your "thousands" I would bet my paycheck on that. . .

Why are farmer loggers from the mid west so ####### cocky?

 

[troythetreeman]

i am willing to concede perhaps i should not have recommended this method to a homeowner, who likely lacks the necessary experience to know if this is safe or the best approach for his tree
but if the man intends to cut a tree down, is aware it will hang up in a second tree and wants to be sure the butt comes free, in a controlled direction after the tree hangs up. i just offered an option i know works because i occasionally do it that way
it puts the butt on the ground, in front of the stump and ensures the saw doesnt bind
but i will concede i lack all the necessary information to say, "do it this way"
i use so many different cuts in the course of a day, each one intended to bring the limb, or tree down in a controlled fashion, meant to control the way it falls and if possible, the way it lands
you guys can do things the way you do them, im not here to question methods, and i resent you questioning mine
i dont talk out of my ass, i dont say things work unless they are tried and true for me
you lay a tree over the way i described, one of two things is going to happen, its going to remain propped up in the other tree, butt dug into the ground, or its going to fall, the way its leaning, either rolling out of or sliding off, the tree it landed in
and given the information provided, 16" (easy enough to be sure of) and 100' (almost certainly a much lower number) and many other trees near by (making me infer tall poles not thick full cone shaped pines) ill bet on the latter
i will also concede a sloping back cut is almost never correct and for my way to work your cuts better be perfect, as near vertical as possible and the tree needs to stop falling before it reaches 30 degrees or so