dead trees

[georgia]

I went to take down a dead elm for a friend a week ago and here's what happened.

He said tree has been dead a year and a half. It is close to the house and must be climbed. When I look at it the bark is peeling off bad and the base of the tree is rotting. It is about 14" at base and 70 feet tall with large limbs at the very tip top jutting in each direction. It is so dry and hardened my gaffs will barely go in while climbing but I hit a couple of soft spots on my way up. I wanted to throw a decent size top because I did not want to go all the way up but I could not stop thinking about the rotting base.

I came out of the tree and referred them to my friends whom I believe to have more experience than I do. They came over and did the work. I probably made the right decision but I would have been such an easy take-down and now I feel like a big wuss.


Is there any literature on sizing up dead trees? Have any of you ever come down out of a dead tree?

Thanks for your input,

Steve the Wuss

 

[sonny]

Your not a wuss, That makes you a real man for asking for help.
The last thing you want to do is be worried up in a tree.Your friend most likely appreciated it, & will return the favor to you someday.

 

[treeclimber165]

I have been in dead trees up near the top, with my gaffs stuck in about 5" diameter wood. When I got the top out and started chunking down the trunk, The section 4' BELOW where I had been perched disintegrated when it hit the ground. Sometimes I feel like I have an angel looking over me, protecting me from myself. :angel:

 

[HUSKYMAN]

Did you watch the friend with more experience when he did the job? Just curious as to whether he did anything different then what you did or would have done if you finished the job. I would rather be a wuss than a real man in a wheel chair.

 

[monkeypuzzle]

Even after 14yrs. of climbing I hate dead trees,but there is the thrill factor that gets you.Yes guys it's a fact,climbers have large egos,not just us tree dudes.The guys who do big wall climbs really have it bad.We have all seen someone put on a set of spikes and give it go,they take'em off quick,they want nothing to do with it. 20ft. off the ground is nothing to us,but to the average joe it's scary.How many of you have actually been 100ft. UP a tree?And then to go to work?I honestly have not worked at 100ft. but have been up around 130ft.Old growth Hemlocks.I like to compare hight with one of my past times,snakes.I have played with snakes forever and I have caught thousands,but I never can find the ones everybody else sees,you know the 9 foot Eastern Diamondback,etc.Perception I think is the key word here.They don't call dead trees WIDOW MAKERS for nothing! Use your HEAD!

 

[Deere John]

Dead trees and trees with big cankers always worry me. One memorable job: I did a sugar maple that was dead for 2 years. No bark, and the outer wood was so hard that I had at least 2 dozen kickouts with my freshly-sharpened spurs. No nice sway to the tree when you are in it - I worry that there is no green tissue to create the sway and absorb the shock - just a shock and a crack and ....

The other memorable one was a poplar with a big canker at the 20' mark. I climbed to there, and poked and proded it to figure out how safe the top would be. I ended up going up there, and my ground man asked if that was a woodpecker in the tree with me, - no, just my knees knocking the trunk.

Fear is a good thing - don't deny it.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

You get to learn how the wood goes bad and what you can trust. I have backed out of a number of jobs because I was not comfortable once i got a look at the top.

I've known a couple of people that have fallen.

I never met Peter Donzelli, but read some of his papers. What a loss. From the descriptions I've heard, that coulda been me. I've been on a few that had little meat in the stick and I put some dynamic stress on them. You cannot help it if your felling a large top.

There is alot of stress involved in doing a removal if it is easy, why make it worse by doing it while sying "I shouldnt be up here!"

 

[Eric E.]

If I can't find a safe way to do it then....Walk away and live another day.

 

[Toddppm]

I just bid a job yesterday to take down 3 VERY dead oaks. I did a removal at the house directly behind this house 2 years ago and remember looking over the fence at these trees going , Man I feel sorry for that person, that's going to be an expensive job! One of the trees has a deck built around it, they are all 3 about 70 ft. tall, the roots are above ground and dry as hell, hardly any small branches they all fell off years ago. Unfortunately this guy bought the house in the winter last year and didn' t know they were dead(cold blooded sellers) I bid high thinking he wouldn't go for it and wouldn't you know he said yes, I'll be sharpening my spikes before climbing these rocks!
I've come down from one oak before that was just too spongy, put a rope in it instead and pulled it over, better to take a chance damaging something than yourself.
Get the book, Evaluation of Hazard Trees in Urban Areas, it doesn't go too in depth about dead trees but will give some insight, gotta go with your gut.

 

[Chain Gang]

You can somewhat judge a dead tree by tapping it with a mallet and by drilling into it. This will at least tell you where and how much is hollow or rotten. You can carry a cordless drill up with you to check out a canker as John D. mentioned.
Be sure to check the base and roots as far out as possible. As John S. mentioned, dynamic loads that removal creates can drop a solid tree with rotten roots before you are ready for it to happen.

Todd's suggestion to get out of the tree and pull it down if necessary is smart. I'd rather have an angry customer than a crying family any day.


Fear is your Friend. It keeps us from doing things we shouldn't. Stay scared and live long enough to be able to laugh about it.

 

[Dave]

Big onions are good to have, but you can't use them if you're dead Don't hesitate to walk away from a job if you aren't completely comfortable looking at it. There's enough work out there so you can pick and choose your jobs.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I ahd a theroy for scary removals, bid high then add some more to it for clean-up and everything. Take 5-10 min to make $5k look like I put some thought into it so that the next guy will look better. I got one once, was lining up a crane when managment blew a gasket and made me back out. The funny thing is that he did not want an $800 crane rental on his P&L! $3k proffit is what I figured we'd get for the bruises I would get on the insides of my knees. (well I would have got $300 commission).

Somethings in this world you just cant explain.

-Charley Daniels