Depth of face cut

[Woody912]

You can get alot of lift by doing this, reduced chance of spitting out a wedge than traditionally stacked wedges and there are three great locations for steel splitting wedges

Are you really getting any lift from those bottom 3 wedges?

 

[Gypo Logger]

Rock hatchet weilding wedge Nazis. Too funny!

 

[fixit1960]

Are you really getting any lift from those bottom 3 wedges?

That was my thought also. I think it would be more effective if you plunge cut along both sides vertically to allow the wood to lift as the wedges were drove in.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[fixit1960]

fixit1960,

On the face of the posts, it looks more like you are baiting for an argument than wanting a legitimate discussion. When some experienced logging folks reply you go berserk. What is up with that? What's your basis to ridicule posters for stating the safe and recommended method? Good practices are not limited to a particular forum.

If you want a discussion, let's start here:

I must have missed the post that says you cannot use steel wedges. The OP said he was using steel splitting wedges so I cautioned him to be careful because in my limited experience these wedges are much more prone to quickly spit out. As you pointed out the other dangers should be readily apparent such as hitting the wedge with the saw chain or when bucking having the wedge slide down and hit the saw chain.

Where is it written, you ask. If this was a true question and not simply a statement of your position, I would tell you to try Google where you will find it written by professionals not to use steel splitting wedges - most citing the risk of hitting the saw chain. Many wedging sources don't address splitting wedges or wedge materials because it is assumed one is using a proper falling wedge (which in the good old USA appears now to mean plastic or aluminum, magnesium or some other soft metal). Google "steel falling wedges" if you want to see pictures of the old steel falling wedges; they look pretty much like a modern plastic wedge - not even close in appearance to a splitting wedge.

Can you use steel splitting wedges? Yes. Should you? Rarely, if ever. Can you cut without any PPE? Yes. Should you? Rarely, if ever. I have done both, but just because you, I and many others have done it doesn't mean one should.

You will also find it written by some that wooden wedges shouldn't be used due to reliability concerns. I doubt there are many here who have not had to improvise with a wood wedge at least once in their careers when bucking and a few while falling. Do I recommend routine use of wood wedges for falling? Absolutely not. Do some take great pride in making and using wood wedges? Apparently so.


Chill and be safe.

Ron

No Ron, I wasn't baiting anyone. I was simply sharing a story. If you want to spank someone maybe go back to post #80 and read bitzers post. This posted with no intro, I have no idea who he is or his experience and read his signature. He criticizes my hinge thickness and explains why it wasn't dropping as fast as he evidently thought it should and then tells me in no uncertain terms you should never use splitting wedges for felling. Mind you, the tree dropped with no issues, where I wanted it. How would you react? Or maybe you wouldn't, but that's not me. I don't brag, but I don't like to be criticized when I don't feel it was warranted, if the tree had broke the hinge and landed on the wires, ok wail away on me, I have it coming.

slowp is a different story, we go back a number of months and I respect her opinion, although I disagree with most of them. We have had a number of conversations on different topics. I believe slowp was stirring the pot a little.

In any event their points were noted, as I posted in the last one. Where I grew up you used what you had. Common sense prevailed and if it wasn't exactly the right tool you were careful to not get hurt or destroy what you were working on.

The wedge nazi comment, well I thought that was deserved. And was in fun..

 

[CUCV]

Yes I get lots of lift out of the bottom three wedges. The wedges break out the wood but the way it breaks out relative to the grain it really helps keep the wedges from spitting out.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Was it all the veneer logs in other posts ?

Ya, the butt logs were veneer, except for the ash.

 

[olyman]

It wasn't leaning ahead. It was standing straight up. There was more limb mass to the east, not a lot but enough for me to know it would want to fall that direction. 3" of hinge is not too much on a 30" tree. Especially soft elm. Bust the hinge and you lose the tree.

And tell me, where is it written you can't use steel splitting wedges to drop a tree? As I mentioned in my post I had both my plastics stacked and was utilizing what I had. As long as you don't have to go back in to make more back cut, what is it with peoples fear of steel felling wedges? They used them for years. No different than when you use them to split. You are just driving them horizontally instead of vertically.

I'm starting to figure out your signature.

 

[olyman]

No



No it's called using you resources. I was out of plastic wedges and had two steel splitting wedges that I used.
What the hell are you people, the wedge Nazi's. It's my wedge, my chain, my saw and my tree, I'll use what I have to get the job done. I do not drop trees for a living, consequently I do not have a 1/2 dozen plastic wedges at my disposal. If I did this every day I would have a half dozen plastic, they are considerably lighter and less expensive and will not harm a chain, but I don't so I didn't. Have you ever used a screwdriver for a prybar?

YES, they are the wedge Nazis..and Nazis of every other type also..never made a mistake,,,and can tell you all about yours..........

 

[fixit1960]

Ya, the butt logs were veneer, except for the ash.View attachment 410936

Boy gypo, your treading on thin ice on this forum with a pic like that. Sure to bring out those that feel your promoting bad safety behavior . You could fall and hurt yourself then who would cut down that nice tree?

 

[olyman]

Boy gypo, your treading on thin ice on this forum with a pic like that. Sure to bring out those that feel your promoting bad safety behavior . You could fall and hurt yourself then who would cut down that nice tree?

the wedge Nazis..will be along directly...........................

 

[Marshy]

i normally refrain from commenting on falling trees since i am just slightly less dangerous than a 5 yr old when it comes to getting them on the ground but i run into plenty of 12-16" trees that once a face is in them and you start the back cut there isnt enough meat left in the tree for a wedge. sloping back cut was suggested by a timber cutter that came in the shop. longer cut gives more room for a wedge and bar to fit. im not cutting back leaners or trying to direct the fall with the wedge...just insuring the tree doesnt sit back and pinch a bar. i am open to suggestions or video if someone wants to post the correct way to do it.

Back cut first is the best suggestion I can give on wood that size. If they're near balanced then you could get away with the sloping back cut. If you need to push it don't use it as it puts more pressure on the hinge and can break it before you're ready.

Sorry guys, but I cannot believe I just read advice FOR a sloped back cut. If you cant manage to get a wedge in 12-16" diameter wood then I think you should consider a new technique.

Pounding wedges in a sloped back cut will stress the hinge horizontally and less force from the wedge will go into the direction to help tip the tree towards your face cut.

 

[Woody912]

Sorry guys, but I cannot believe I just read advice FOR a sloped back cut. If you cant manage to get a wedge in 12-16" diameter wood then I think you should consider a new technique.

Pounding wedges in a sloped back cut will stress the hinge horizontally and less force from the wedge will go into the direction to help tip the tree towards your face cut.

how 'bout when there is a net wire fence grown into the back of the tree where you want to make your back cut?

 

[Marshy]

how 'bout when there is a net wire fence grown into the back of the tree where you want to make your back cut?

Go higher or lower.

 

[fordf150]

it was advocated by an admitted hack(me) on that 1 in 20 tree that is 12" diameter and balanced. Not for the purpose of wedging a tree over or directing a fall but simply for the purpose of not pinching a bar. I was given another alternative that might work and i am going to try it. If there is a better way please explain it or better yet find me a video. last spring we cut a couple hundred trees that are in that size range and will probably do twice that many this year so a pulley system or sacrificing a wedge on a tree is a time consuming and costly option as we cut on sunday afternoons first thing in the spring before the leaves come on then we are done for the year. we already have a 75ft by 1000ft section that probably 90% of the trees need pulled to insure they dont land on the fence.

My step dad cut timber off and on for the last 40 yrs...he gets them on the ground and has only had one incident with a widow maker and i always thought he was pretty good but i realize he does stuff his way and maybe not the right way. EXAMPLE 3 weeks ago we went and cut 2 big oaks for one of my firewood customers. both landed within inches of where he wanted them but the second one was 50" or bigger and he didnt put a face cut in it. The timber cutters that come in the shop are all old timers that have been in the woods their whole lives and a couple of them only use steel wedges. Sloping cut was suggested by 2 different cutters for that size tree and that situation

Picture is of the smaller of the 2 trees that we cut

 

[Gypo Logger]

Boy gypo, your treading on thin ice on this forum with a pic like that. Sure to bring out those that feel your promoting bad safety behavior . You could fall and hurt yourself then who would cut down that nice tree?

Lol, that was a 24" cherry worth over 2G's. It had a double crown and would have split when the crown hit the ground reducing it to firewood, hence the load binder.

 

[Marshy]

Last one is not my favorite example, I dont agree with using 2 wedges when you can use one. Its almost the same cut as the second video. Also the cuts can be made horizontal and not sloped to the middle. Notch your face, do the back cut but only through ~2/3's, set you wedge and go to the other side and complete your back cut. Thats basically what the second and third vid are showing. The first video is what I use normally, what more do ya need..?

 

[fixit1960]

Last one is not my favorite example, I dont agree with using 2 wedges when you can use one. Its almost the same cut as the second video. Also the cuts can be made horizontal and not sloped to the middle. Notch your face, do the back cut but only through ~2/3's, set you wedge and go to the other side and complete your back cut. Thats basically what the second and third vid are showing. The first video is what I use normally, what more do ya need..?

Looks like a good alternative to a sloping back cut. Did anyone else notice the steel wedges in the 3rd video. The shame!!

 

[HuskStihl]

Prolly not my place, but its never stopped me before......

Mr. Fixit. You posted a story about falling a tree. In this story you left a skybound tree unattended to go get another wedge. This straight tree was skybound because you left three inches of holding wood between the face and the back cut. An experienced production faller, who happens to be the guy the other fallers on here go to for advice, told you that 3 inches of holding wood is too much on a tree that size. You then insulted him, and insisted that your technique and logic were sound. This site is losing its experts. There are a few saw builders left that are happy to help with advice, and several arborists and loggers who will try to point the less experienced in a safer direction, but their numbers are dwindling. I suspect it is because every day, there are guys who refuse to take well meaning advice from pro's and just want to argue. I get that you told your falling story with pride in a job well done, and did not get the response you expected, but a little bit of humility would have gone a long way in keeping yet another good thread from getting derailed with ********

 

[fordf150]

thank you...when the mud dries up and we get in the woods i will give those a try

 

[fordf150]

so far in our off season of cutting i have managed to pick up a couple new things to try for some of the problems i have had in the past. that is the reason i am here