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Drying vs Non-Drying Vegetable Oils

Discussion in 'Chainsaw' started by GerrySM, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    What if I am cutting coconut trees? Should I use coconut oil?

    Philbert
     
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  2. KiwiBro

    KiwiBro Hold my beer and film this...

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    Would be interesting to compare bar temps when using different bar oils. Specifically Canola vs Olive vs dino/mineral.
     
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  3. JTM

    JTM ArboristSite Guru

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    I can't believe I'm spending time reading this but it seems to me that the OP just wants to snipe other people's responses. He wants to spout scientific evidence but does not want to get down to business and do some testing. I certainly would appreciate reading his results. However, on the subject of toxicity one needs to take the information they read and put it into context before they take it as gospel. The information used in the original studies cited by the IARC on the toxicity of mineral oils was based on coke oven emissions which contain large amounts of poly nuclear aromatic hydrocarbons- the little nasties that cause cancer. The coke making process itself lends to the formation of these chemicals (O2 deficient atmosphere).
     
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  4. jakethesnake

    jakethesnake ArboristSite Guru

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    I'd run olive if the price were lower. Not a bad test in my opinion. I tried canola. Didn't love it.
     
  5. Rosss

    Rosss ArboristSite Operative

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    So I read the whole thread. I am chainsaw milling with a 36 inch bar.
    Will canola work on a bar of this length? In this thread was a claim that it was only good until bar length was 20 inches.

    If I lived in a place with temps warm enough and cost effective access, coconut would be my oil of choice.
     
  6. Chris-PA

    Chris-PA Where the Wild Things Are

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    I've been running straight canola oil for a few years now, except in a couple of saws that sit a lot like my old McCulloch SE3420 with a diaphragm pulse oil pump. I've never had a problem with the oil gumming or hardening in the tank or pump. As stated upthread, chains and bars hanging on the wall get stiff and the sprockets stick, but they are not hard to free up (and greasing the tips helps).

    It doesn't get all that cold here any more but no issues with low temperature either.

    I have not seen any issues in mixing canola and SAE30, but I try to avoid it.

    It can leave a coating on the outside of the saw. Other than that it's no big deal. I buy gallon jugs at WalMart, usually a $ or so cheaper than bar oil. I'd like to find an oil that won't dry and harden on exposed surfaces as quickly, but I have not seen anything cost effective and readily available.
     
  7. Rosss

    Rosss ArboristSite Operative

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    Thoughts on using canola on a 36 inch bar?

    Some where in this thread somone said not to use it on a bar longer than 20 inches?
     
  8. crotchclimber

    crotchclimber ArboristSite Operative

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    I wouldn't do it. Viscosity is to low. Why risk burning up your expensive bar just to save a dollar or two?
     
  9. Rosss

    Rosss ArboristSite Operative

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    For me is not about saving money (that would be a bonus) I would prefer a vegi based oil. I am going through lots of chain oil and I think my exposure to it, in the long run vegi would be better health wise and also allow me to not worry about where the saw dust ends up and also to be able to use in my fruit forest in my yard.
     
  10. Chris-PA

    Chris-PA Where the Wild Things Are

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    Try it and see, it's not a big investment or effort to do and it's easily reversible. Make some cuts and see if the bar and chain are well oiled on the bottom of the bar. If they are then what's the problem?

    There's so much myth and mystery surrounding such a simple lube system. The oiling system has no idea what kind of oil you've put in the tank. The pump won't do anything different for a given viscosity range, and there's plenty of experience to show canola is a decent bar lube. Unless it's getting too hot and burning off (which would be more of a sign of chain problems), or the lack of tack additives causes too much to sling off the tip, then where else can the oil go?
     
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  11. Rosss

    Rosss ArboristSite Operative

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    I was thinking to just try it out.
    Next time I cut I am going to take the temp gun with me and take a few readings with the regular bar oil and then when I try canola, take some more readings. will try to control for other variables.
    Thanks :)
     
  12. CR888

    CR888 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I've never considered taking a temp gun while cutting wood but each to there own. Increased bar temps can be a result of other factors besides oil type. I've used canola extensively for 6+years now in a work environment. It has a few minor downsides but over all the benefits exceed. Using canola canned spray is a big no no on hedge trimmer blades, this thread opened my eyes to the use of non drying oils like olive oil. As a result I now use olive oil spray on my 4 hedge trimmers and there is NO gumming up & it lubes fantastic. This thread has been one of the more useful threads on the subject of alternative oils compared to petroleum based. At the moment I source canola for free for my saws, if I could get olive oil cheap enough, I'd switch and use it instead. Olive oil requires no preventative measures to be taken to avoid issues, you can switch from mineral petroleum and do nothing different unlike canola where you need to be careful with a few things.
     
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  13. KiwiBro

    KiwiBro Hold my beer and film this...

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    We've got a discount store in town that specialises in goods that are near their best-before (not use-by) dates. They sometimes get a shipment of canola. It's very cheap. Thing is, I'd pay as much for it as regular bar oil because it does such a good job. Maybe you can find a bulk bin/discount goods store somewhere and ask if they ever get olive oil etc? Or perhaps a distributor and let them know you'll buy it even if passed its best-before date?
     
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  14. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    Sam's Club / Costco warehouse stores sell 5-gallon jugs.

    Philbert
     
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  15. Rosss

    Rosss ArboristSite Operative

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    From a cost perspective
    canola is $5.28 for 3 litres
    Olive is $19.97 for 3 litres.
    oregon bar oil $19.99 for 3 litres
     
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  16. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    Locally I can find canola oil in consumer packaging around $5-6/ gallon. in restaurant packaging, about $4.50/ gallon.

    Cheap bar oil at one of the local home centers goes on sale for $5/ gallon several times per year.

    Philbert
     
  17. crotchclimber

    crotchclimber ArboristSite Operative

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    The main problem with veg oil is that it burns and leaves residue on hot parts of the saw, like the cylinder and muffler. I've seen saws so caked with burned oil the cylinder cooling fins are blocked. It's very hard to remove. If you care about your saws and your health, you can use veterinary grade mineral oil. It is $14.25/gallon through Amazon (linked)
    Same price as the Stihl oil at my dealer. Stihl also sells their BioPlus oil but it's $24/gallon at my dealer
     
  18. ken morgan

    ken morgan ArboristSite Guru

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    This is the stupidest thread I have ever read on ANY Forum ...unless you run an electric saw the particulate intake from the engine itself is a thousand times more dangerous than any spatter from the chain and bar. To the OP...grow up and test the stuff yourself stop whining and begging for someone else to do your own work. Nobody else is overly concerned and your whining i am superior to you do to my concerns act is just irritating on the best of days.
     
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  19. usmcbuckwild

    usmcbuckwild ArboristSite Operative

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    Holy **** my head hurts now.

    There is no perfect solution to anything and no matter what you do someone is going to be upset.

    I spent 13 years working with petroleum products for the .mil, I am API certified petroleum laboratory specialist and petroleum laboratory testing technician. There is so much WTF in this thread its hard to read.

    Mix canola and olive oil if you want to run vegi oils. Use dino or syn oils if you want to run them. For ****’s sake run KY if you want to be a kinky bastard (don’t do that, if you do you are too stupid to be breathing to begin with). But don’t try to run to “science” by googling to find anything you can to support your opinion.

    Roads have “oil” on them because asphalt is made with petroleum products (recycled tires, etc.) which is also transferred to concrete surfaces such as bridges.
     
  20. 7sleeper

    7sleeper Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I believe an important aspect has totally been ignored here with bio oils (rapseed, olive, etc.). These oils can flock/solify when exposed to temperatures below freezing.

    Oil Melting Temperature
    (degree C & F)

    Butter 32 - 35
    89.6 - 95
    Castor Oil -18
    -0.4
    Cocoa butter 34
    93.2
    Coconut Oil 25
    77
    Cotton Seed Oil -1
    30.2
    Lard 41
    106
    Linseed Oil -24
    -11.2
    Margarine 34 - 43
    93.2 - 109
    Mutton Tallow 42
    108
    Olive Oil -6
    21.2
    Palm Kernel Oil 24
    75.2
    Palm Oil 35
    95
    Peanut Oil 3
    37.4
    Rapeseed Oil -10
    14
    Sunflower Oil -17
    1.4
    Soybean Oil -16
    3.2
    Tung Oil -2.5
    27.5


    https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/oil-melting-point-d_1088.html

    7
     

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