Echo cs 302 - wont start

[OldTimer40]

I am new to this site and would like to thank everyone for all the post/information that is available. I would also like to say that I am a novice working on small engines.

Echo CS302 was given to me in excellent condition (homeowner saw, lightly used, drained oil/fuel after every use, stored in case) very well maintained. He said that he wanted a newer one with chain brake and lighter weight. The only problem he knew was that occasionally the oiler would clog up.

After obtaining it; I put a new chain on it and bought some premixed gas (just for now till I know its a good saw) and bar oil for it, When I went to use it it fired up just fine and cut a couple of small limbs but noticed the chain was too tight. So I cut it off and reset the chain and went to cut a limb in half and the chain was tight again. After investigating the bar wasn't getting oil so that is when I discovered the oil line was gone (bottom of the tank). Anyways long story short I emptied the oil and put mineral spirits in and a couple days later I got the remaining oil line out. I installed the new one and now I have plenty of oil. But since then I can not get the saw to start/run for very long.

Below are some of the things I have tried/checked:

• Compression 125 psi (done myself with wot and 6 pulls using loan-a-tool from auto parts store)
  
• Muffler lid has oil around it and some on the muffler cover but inside the muffler has only a small coat of carbon
• Checked Carb pump & metering Diaphragms look good not hard and doesn't have tears
• Carb seals are good without tears
• New oil line installed (see above)
• Fuel lines appears to be good with nice clean white filter
• If I put a couple of drops of fuel in the carb it fires until the fuel is gone then quits
• I took it to a echo dealer shop and had them evaluate it they said it has low compression and parts are obsolete and by the time they fixed it I could have a new saw for the same money w/ warranty (understand where they come from but since it was running before the oil line fix and not after that doesn't make sense also I did the compression check not them)
  
• Piston to me has a scuff mark but see attached picture and let me know what you think.
• Replaced spark plug and tested for spark and it does have a blue spark

Also when I got it back from the dealer I got it to fire up for a minute or so until it stalled out but it was smoking while running but could never get it to start again.

Long read but tried to provide all information that I have and any suggestion would be helpful.

 

[TimberWolf530]

If it will run when force fed fuel, then my guess is: Fuel filter, fuel line, carb. One of those, or a combination of any of the 3. Get a new filter, new line if it looks old, and tear your carb down, clean it and put in a carb kit. Your compression is fine. What did the old plug look like when you took it out?

 

[OldTimer40]

Old plug looked good and had spark with proper gap

 

[RandyMac]

302s were one of Echo's better efforts.

 

[Chris-PA]

Not at all familiar with that saw, but it appears to have some sort of pulse or pressure driven oil pump, rather than mechanically driven. If so then there is a seal between the oil tank and the crankcase, which may have been compromised and now allowing bar oil into the case.

 

[backhoelover]

Does the plug get wet when you choke to start?

 

[HiOctane]

302 will often get "sticky rubber" fuel line under the flywheel. Remove starter and check hose condition from tank plastic connector to carb.

 

[rupedoggy]

What he said

 

[OldTimer40]

TimberWolf530 - Looks like I need to tear the carb down and put a kit in it?
Backhoelover - After 6 pull the spark plug is wet and I can pour a little fuel out of the end of the spark plug when removed but not even a hint of firing.
HiOctane - fuel line looked good under the flywheel

 

[Conquistador3]

Those old horizontal cylinder Echo's will run forever but when they stop, they'll drive you crazy.

The last CS-302 I've had in my little shop was a nightmare and displayed exactly the symptoms you describe: it seemed fine but refused to start unless force fed fuel.
To cut a long story short, you will need to fully rebuild the fuel system and then it may still not be enough. The 302 ran on a Walbro WA carburetor (I've read there are also some using Tillotson's, but I've never seen one of those) which has to be the director ancestor of the WT-series: it doesn't take kindly at being rebuilt. I don't know how many times I had that old Walbro apart nor how many times I desperately checked the rebuild kit, hoping for some defect that would explain the still non-running condition when everything was supposed to be fine.
Used and NOS Walbro WA's go for literal silly moneyso rebuild kits and a lot of patience (or luck) are really the only option. So far I've had good luck with dirt cheap Chinese rebuild kits.
I've heard some cheap China carburetors can be adapted to replace the Walbro WA but I honestly don't know which ones and it's not something I am in a hurry discovering.

 

[OldTimer40]

After another look last night it seems to be flooding the cylinder with fuel and running out the exhaust. Its quite interesting that it went from no fuel to flooding after i opened the carb to check the pump & metering Diaphragms. Carb kit is on the way and I will keep everyone post.

Thanks for the replys!

 

[Hoggwood]

The oil pump is not impulse driven. It is a mechanical piston style driven off of a lobe on the crank. If you are burning bar oil there is a good chance one of the 3 O-rings on the body of the pump is compromised. The pump will thread out of the top of the unit. Note where the mark is on the nut if you remove it. They were usually set about 3/4 of a turn out from fully seated from the factory. Max flow drops off quickly from there when turning counterclockwise. Hence, the stop on the adjustment knob. You can easily check oil flow with the bar and chain removed and adjust accordingly prior to setting the manual knob back in place.

That same pump style was used on their entire lineup for years. All the way through the 100 cc offerings. Hopefully you have a line on inexpensive bar oil. They are very healthy when running well.

Good saws.

 

[dougand3]

The Stihl MS 180 carb (old style w/o air filter elbow) can be adapted to work. For $8, it's worth it to get even if just a diagnostic tool.
Trying to remember....Remove choke, insert #10 bolt-lock washer-nut, drill new throttle link hole, maybe something with idle screw.

 

[rmh3481]

Replace the carb diaphragms. They shrink from time and then leak air where the metering stud goes thru the metering diaphragm. Clean the inlet needle seat with a qtip minus the cotton dipped in carb cleaner. Alot of varnish seems to build up there on these. Once you do get it running, I would pressure test the case to check the integrity of the crank seals because of the age.

 

[lfnh]

Likes been said, replace the fuel lines no matter what they look like with new.
Lot of that old stuff carries pin hole leaks that aren't easy to detect.
Stuff can get behind that inlet screen and block fuel too.

Kioritz 302 you have sounds like it's worth going thru. Some had Tillotson carbs - 25A

 

[rupedoggy]

Points?

 

[OldTimer40]

Just wanted to update everyone and say thank you for all the help. After I cleaned the carb and put a carb kit in; it fired right up. I don't know why I was dreading a carb kit r&r but it was quite simple and straight forward.

Thanks Again

 

[Den]

Glad to hear it Oldtimer40 !!!!
Its a great feeling to bring one back to life.

 

[Icedogs28]

Good info on here! My brother grabbed me a 302 and a 315 out of a junk pile for Christmas. They cleaned up nice, the 302 is missing the fuel line from tank to carb, but it fired off starting fluid. So that's my next project.

 

[Den]

Icedogs28,
Oooooh, don't use that dreaded Ether/starting fluid on that beloved 302...or any other saw for that matter. Don't even use carb cleaner to get it to fire. Always use pre-mix fuel.
With that spike in compression using Ether, you could possibly bend a rod slightly...not enough to blow it up immediately, but enough to throw it out of balance and cause a tear-up after 15 or 20 hours of operation.